In The Money or Final 3?

[babykahuna]

Yesterday I was 2 from the bubble in a 180 man SNG. Blinds were 400/800. My stack was $5000. I was dealt AK off, under the gun. Having had QQ cracked twice as well as AQ suited. I played tight and just called to see the flop. Cut off man and guy before go all in. Not wanting to bubble I folded. The 2 guys show QJ s and A/8 off. 2 Kings come on the flop. I make the money with my $4200 intact and come out 28th with a couple of dollars profit.
I talked with my poker buddies about this and they all laughed at me saying I played like an old lady. Their concept was final 3 or nothing. Ive always managed to maintain my BR by playing this way but have never busted out big winning the big payoff but a couple of times. I have worked my way up $750 profit over my initial $100 investment. It took a year. But I want to hit it higher I found just making it in the money is satisfying but often a couple of dollars after 4 hours of work is hard to swallow as well. Should I change my style or concept?

Has it occurred to you that the guy who raised you all-in may have known you're supertight? Perhaps he picked up on your tight play as you approached/reached the bubble.

Myself, with only 5k in chips in this spot and blinds fast approaching, I'd either go all-in or just hit the sit-out button. All-in to win...sit-out to get a couple of bucks. Calling is not an option UNLESS I'm looking for exactly what happened...an aggressive player pushes with a weak hand and does what I want here...get all the money in the middle.

Brann

Originally Posted by babykahuna

I was dealt AK off, under the gun. Having had QQ cracked twice as well as AQ suited. I played tight and just called to see the flop.

<p>Adapting your strategy in this manner is a receipe for disaster. Never say "well my hands seem to be getting cracked tonight, so I'll tighten up"; that's results based.

<p>Under the circumstances AKo should have been an autoshove; I agree totally with your friends.

Originally Posted by babykahuna

I found just making it in the money is satisfying but often a couple of dollars after 4 hours of work is hard to swallow as well. Should I change my style or concept?

<p>Either adapt your play to go for it all or change the game you are playing. One first place finish covers a lot of bubble bust outs in an MTT. But if you don't want to or have trouble changing you game, then STTs are the place where players who aim to "just make the money" thrive.

What ever you do DON'T change your style! $100 to $750 is very good, solid poker great job. IMO it is a Bank Roll Managment and what limits are you playing question. Does your BR need the couple of $$$ after 4 hrs of poker? Are the limits you are playing paying off for you skill level? If you improve your game a little, not a lot, it might take you from bubble/$$$ to bubble/final table at the level your playing at. Or is playing at a lower limit and making the Final Table more often, more profitable?

I am very interested in your plan-of-action. Keep us posted. Good luck n keep on cashin'

Originally Posted by CoorsMe

What ever you do DON'T change your style! $100 to $750 is very good, solid poker great job. IMO it is a Bank Roll Managment and what limits are you playing question. Does your BR need the couple of $$$ after 4 hrs of poker? Are the limits you are playing paying off for you skill level? If you improve your game a little, not a lot, it might take you from bubble/$$$ to bubble/final table at the level your playing at. Or is playing at a lower limit and making the Final Table more often, more profitable?

I am very interested in your plan-of-action. Keep us posted. Good luck n keep on cashin'

1 more thing. I have never been a big fan of the "Final 3 or Nothing" mind set. Would you have been happier going for 3rd and making nothing for 4 hrs of poker or making a few $$$. Set your own goals, were do you wanna be and don't say 1st that's a givin'

If you look at a pay out structure of a 180 person SNG -I haven't in a while-

considering ur win of over 700%........ Why change anything?
Want more??????????
Thumbs up, guess ur strategy works

Originally Posted by babykahuna

Yesterday I was 2 from the bubble in a 180 man SNG. Blinds were 400/800. My stack was $5000. I was dealt AK off, under the gun. Having had QQ cracked twice as well as AQ suited. I played tight and just called to see the flop. Cut off man and guy before go all in. Not wanting to bubble I folded. The 2 guys show QJ s and A/8 off. 2 Kings come on the flop. I make the money with my $4200 intact and come out 28th with a couple of dollars profit.
I talked with my poker buddies about this and they all laughed at me saying I played like an old lady. Their concept was final 3 or nothing. Ive always managed to maintain my BR by playing this way but have never busted out big winning the big payoff but a couple of times. I have worked my way up $750 profit over my initial $100 investment. It took a year. But I want to hit it higher I found just making it in the money is satisfying but often a couple of dollars after 4 hours of work is hard to swallow as well. Should I change my style or concept?

Never be afraid to be the bubble boy. Nobody wants to go out on the bubble but occasionally it happens because of a good play with solid cards.

You should have pushed here. You were 2 from the bubble in a 180 man tourney. So, I am estimating you had 6 or 7 people at your table at the time you picked up AK. AK is a pretty solid hand short handed. You should have pumped it all in preflop. If you go out on the bubble, so be it.

As for the 3rd or nothing crap. That is stupid. I set my goals a bit higher. I am a 1st or nothing kinda guy.

I don't think you need to change much regarding your play if you have been steadily increasing your bankroll. But, you may want to change your bubble play. Play more agressively near the bubble. Most people are trying to fold into the money. This is prime time to increase your stack. I would rather take a shot with AK with 20 people left than to fold it, squeak into the money and get blinded out in about 16th-18th place. If you play the AK very strong here, you are either going to win the blinds or you are going to coin flip against a lesser hand.

my response takes into account that most 180 man tourneys pay top 18. that really doesnt matter. no matter where the bubble is, you should still play this hand strong.

[Spaz]

i tend to agree with your friends, and i like to play pretty aggressively as the money approaches to take advantages of other players that tighten up.

however, i think of the bubble like a yellow light - you either punch the gas and make it through aggressively, or you hit the brakes and play it cautiously. sometimes, you try to beat the light and end up getting busted, but that's the risk you take. when you can't decide, or try to do both, you'll just end up running the red light.
your chip stack and the looseness of your table will determine where this "line" is and whether you have enough chips to push on aggressively or just sit back and hope to make it inside the bubble.
another point i'd like to bring up is that, since the payouts are allllways top heavy, if i'm playing well within my bankroll, i'm willing to risk the small loss that will come with bubbling to gain a potential large win.

i know that's a lot of rambled, jumbled up thoughts, but that's just what i think about when bubble time comes.

Personally, I would raise preflop, and maybe just take down the pot. If the others did go all in, I probably call. I've seen a lot of short stacks get hyperaggressive as they approach the bubble, counting on the larger stacks to tighten up, I guess.
I agree with the other comments that the "top three or nothing" mindset is just wrong.