In The Money or Final 3?

Originally Posted by bwarlitner

however, i think of the bubble like a yellow light - you either punch the gas and make it through aggressively, or you hit the brakes and play it cautiously. sometimes, you try to beat the light and end up getting busted, but that's the risk you take. when you can't decide, or try to do both, you'll just end up running the red light.

Superb analogy. Just beware of running that red light. Getting t-boned in rush hour traffic sucks ass!

[babykahuna]

Originally Posted by redfan73

Easy answer here. I pull out my Super System 2 about 3 or 4 times a month to help me keep my mind straight and possibly point out any moronic mistakes I have made lately.

Doyle has a great point and here is the answer to the title of this thread:

This is not verbatim but it is pretty much on point.

If you are playing in a tournament because you need the money, tighten up and watch people get knocked out. If your main objective is to win the tournament, this is the prime situation to play agressively and get closer to the chip leader.

Personally, I do not play to make the money even though I do about 25%-30% of the time. I play to win tournaments. The ROI in MTT's is horrible unless you make the final table. What is the point of sitting around and waiting in, for example, a 3000 man tournament when you know you are not going to make any real money until 2991 people are eliminated.

You have to be one of the people who knocks out some of these 2991 players. You won't do that if you are folding to the money.

I dont think this applies. Doyle is a unique brand of Poker player. He's got a huge bankroll and getting in the money doesnt put a dent in it one way or another. Of course he is in it for the most money. Im talking about the average player trying to make a buck. The rules applies differently to this class

Originally Posted by babykahuna

I dont think this applies. Doyle is a unique brand of Poker player. He's got a huge bankroll and getting in the money doesnt put a dent in it one way or another. Of course he is in it for the most money. Im talking about the average player trying to make a buck. The rules applies differently to this class

Incorrect. If you play your hands according to how much of your bankroll you could stand to lose, you will never be a profitable poker player.

In tournaments, you enter to WIN. Why would you change this methodology halfway through the tournament knowing that you will barely double your money just to cash?

You have to look at the total investment. If you are playing within your bankroll limits, the tournaments should NEVER be about just making the money.

[babykahuna]

Yeah thats great in theory. But in daily practice something else. I never said anything about switching gears.
Over the Easter weekend I had a friend who was busted. He is a semi pro. I gave him a jelly roll to get himself in a tournament and some gas money to get there. You can be sure he is just in it to make the money. He has a family to support too. His bankroll is going to pay his rent etc.
Another friend another oldtimer has a daughter with Lupus who just stayed in the hospital for 32 days. I gave him $500 to get out of the house and get in some action. He is an old road warrior. Gambled in all parts of this country. You can bet if he gets in the money he will be happy. He is the type that doesnt like to owe anyone. Always been self sufficient.
A big difference from them and Doyle yet they both got many years in back rooms playing for the cash.
You tell them not to just place in the money.

Originally Posted by babykahuna

Yeah thats great in theory. But in daily practice something else. I never said anything about switching gears.
Over the Easter weekend I had a friend who was busted. He is a semi pro. I gave him a jelly roll to get himself in a tournament and some gas money to get there. You can be sure he is just in it to make the money. He has a family to support too. His bankroll is going to pay his rent etc.
Another friend another oldtimer has a daughter with Lupus who just stayed in the hospital for 32 days. I gave him $500 to get out of the house and get in some action. He is an old road warrior. Gambled in all parts of this country. You can bet if he gets in the money he will be happy. He is the type that doesnt like to owe anyone. Always been self sufficient.
A big difference from them and Doyle yet they both got many years in back rooms playing for the cash.
You tell them not to just place in the money.

In both of your scenarios, your players are playing outside of their bankroll limits.

Thank you for proving my point.

[babykahuna]

Is being right the point? OK youre right. But Doyles example is outside the margins. His bankroll limit is uncommon. My friends were playing within the limits of the roll I started them off with. I didnt expect it back. I like to help friends. But these two proud men did not want to come back to me saying they they busted out. Anyplace in the money would pump up their morale. And sometimes we need that.
I myself would be happy to come back from Vegas as I did with making one of the tournaments with a satellite and making it in the money. Paying for my trip and some.

[babykahuna]

CPOner I tried to send you a pm but I could not get through. I would like to respond to your suggestion. PM me please

Originally Posted by babykahuna

Is being right the point? OK youre right. But Doyles example is outside the margins. His bankroll limit is uncommon.

No being right is not the point. However, the size of Doyle's roll may not be common but the bankroll management principles he uses are very common. No matter what size your bankroll is, you should never enter a tournament you just want to cash in. That defeats the purpose of winning poker.

[babykahuna]

Yes, but the reason I say theory is that when you go through getting beat in 20 or 30 MTT's in a row. Beating 70 to 80 percent of the field. But left out of the money. Is terribly tough on ones soul. I am in the process of improving my play through study and practice. I never play outside of my BR. I am in the profit in terms of my ROI. But sometimes after just getting beat you just desperately want to make it in the money. Is it wrong? Probably. But when your Big Slick doesnt hold up, your KK and AA get cracked by a huge stack near the bubble, etc etc. SOmetimes you just want to make it in the money and feel some kind of pleasure. SOme kind of satisfaction with all your study and effort. SHould I or shouldnt I? I dont know. But its easy for my friends to laugh and say these things but sometimes we poker players need some relief and belief in ourselves. It doesnt come with just believing it. You need to see some kind of light at the end of the tunnel.

[AlCapwned]

Originally Posted by babykahuna

Yesterday I was 2 from the bubble in a 180 man SNG. Blinds were 400/800. My stack was $5000. I was dealt AK off, under the gun. Having had QQ cracked twice as well as AQ suited. I played tight and just called to see the flop. Cut off man and guy before go all in. Not wanting to bubble I folded. The 2 guys show QJ s and A/8 off. 2 Kings come on the flop. I make the money with my $4200 intact and come out 28th with a couple of dollars profit.
I talked with my poker buddies about this and they all laughed at me saying I played like an old lady. Their concept was final 3 or nothing. Ive always managed to maintain my BR by playing this way but have never busted out big winning the big payoff but a couple of times. I have worked my way up $750 profit over my initial $100 investment. It took a year. But I want to hit it higher I found just making it in the money is satisfying but often a couple of dollars after 4 hours of work is hard to swallow as well. Should I change my style or concept?

Im not trying to be rude but if you fold AK in this spot you shouldn't be playing poker. First off, on the bubble play is soo much looser and people are going to be trying to steal and take advantage of players who play to tight (like yourself) out of fear of not cashing. Second off cashing in these is like what 5 bucks until top 9? You call there and you put yourself in a great spot to win the whole tournament. You played this hand wrong by A)flat calling with a shortstack B) folding to the allin.....It just boggles my mind how people can ever fold in this spot ESPECIALLY in a 180 where play is soooo bad. This is a major leak in your game and at least it's easy to fix! Cashing in 5 tournaments is not nearly as profitable as winning 1 tournament or even hitting top 3. Keep that in mind and GL.