2008-08-12 - Omaha hi/lo starting hands

[flosse66]

Originally Posted by xxIcemanandoxx

I dont care what you say to this one its C all the way

have you ever read super systems?

I would love to run this 100 times and see who wins the most.....yeah every time that A hits those kings are dead and have no chance at ever hitting the low.

give me C all day long in a tourny and I know I'm happy.


I will say no more

Iceman

Problem is that there is only one ace left in the deck. D has a pair of Kings, the possibility for a flush and three cards that are close enough together for a straight. If the flop brings a Jack and a Queen or King or Ten, then I don't have to worry much about the last ace, because the straight would beat the pair(s) of aces.

C is not bad. C has two chances at a flush as well. Clubs is difficult for both C and D, because six clubs are already on the table.
C looks good when it comes to a low hand, but so does A and B. If there is a low hand and flop, turn or river brings a deuce, B is most likely to beat the other two hands or have a split. If C has a low hand (say 345 from the board), then it has to split that pot with A.
C is a good chance at a straight 10 to Ace, but the problem is that if the missing 10 and King (plus Jack, Queen or Ace) really pop up, then D wins with a full house Kings and Tens.

But I grant you that, if I play D, the most likely scenario is that the board shows 568 or 35 or 77, so that I loose against a straight, two pairs or a set...
Happens to me all the time, when I am behind, when I am all-in, either at FullTilt, or at PokerStars...

I agree with A55a55in that QuizMaster is extremely wrong today. Because these hands are going all in against each other, D is about as crippled as it gets.

Reflect for a moment on what cards are left in the deck. There are 6 clubs and 9 spades. The only possible flushes are in hand C. Clubs is unlikely, spades is possible. The only pair is in hand D, so that is the only hand that can make a full house. If three of any rank other than 6s or 8s, somebody made quads, so the only good way to get the FH for D is to have one of the last two Ks hit the board along with a pair of something. As far as straights go, for D to have the best straight, he need a J (3 left) and either the case A or one of three remaining 9s. Kings up is a worthless hand because unless it is Ks and 6s or Ks and 8s, somebody else has a winning set.

And of the 36 cards left 22 of them are 2-8. That is 61%. If 60% of the board are non-paired low cards, then there will be a low in somebody’s hand.

In my opinion, B probably has the highest long term EV. Any low that A or C gets will be split 2 or 3 ways. On a flop with low and a 2, then B can sometimes take the entire low. For high hands, C will get all of the club flush boards. (And spades, but the spade flush is crippled. B will get the most straights because C and D counterfeit each others straight cards. B has three ranks to get sets with, A has two, D has two (and the pair of kings), C has 1.

So I think B is best followed closely by C. A will get enough partial lows and a few highs so it is better than D. D just flat out sucks.

So, Mr. QuizMaster? When you said D would be scooping a lot, exactly how did you postulate that was going to happen? Where is my analysis wrong?

(Just for the record, I initially answered C, before I actually thought it through.)

[nightmoves44]

I chose D and got it right..yeeha...btw fultilt is down at the moment.cannot connect.

i seem to recall reading somewhere that the best starting hand in H/L would be the ace low for the wheel draw. maybe i read wrong, but C with A2s and 2 pic. cards suited would be a good start. oh well, such a deal.

not to good at ohama i always lose money in ohama

dang i didnt the the against each other part of the question and picked c when if i knew those hand were against each other than d was correct.

[A55A55IN]

Originally Posted by free0bird

to assasin yes teh calculators are right for c if its just against D

but with A and B still in most often or not its a split pot.

and since the % for a low qualifying hand with all such cards out is low.

D's greater percentage to scoop the Hi element supercedes.

Wrong...I used all 4 hands in the calculator.

[the_Styb]

Just Wow. You kids are incredible.

I'll dismiss the replies of those who couldn't grasp that all four hands are on the table. Well, no, I won't. It was pretty clear:

If the following four starting hands were to go all-in against each other before the flop, which one would have the best expected value?

How could you miss it?

I won't name names, but let's examine some quotes...

Not only does C have the A, it has a monster straight draw,
I assume "the A" means the ace. As for the "monster" straight draw, they all have straight draws, but B & D have better straight draw hands than C.

with C you have a 52% chance of getting half the pot, either high or low, and 13% chance to scoop
Actually, with C you have a 52% (I'm assuming you got the percentage right,) chance of getting half of half the pot. One third of half if the board has 2345. In the latter case AB and C tie for high and low, assuming there's no flush. If a 6 falls as well, then B wins high and AB & C split low.


hand D is not going to be the top hand at all,
Please come play at my cash games!

Because these hands are going all in against each other, D is about as crippled as it gets.
Actually, there are a lot of little cards out there in the starting hands and plenty of 8's, 9's, T's and J's to make a straight for D. Technically, AB & C are crippling each other.

The only pair is in hand D, so that is the only hand that can make a full house.
You're kidding, right? Any two hole cards can make a full house if the right cards fall. Let's say I'm holding 4, 6, Q, A. The flop comes 6, 6, Q... full house! This is freaking poker 101 kids! You also, are invited to my cash games.

See, Quizzy's reasoning here follows a line of thinking that is overused in O8: "I have A2... there's no way I lose money here!" While A2 is nice to have pre-flop or heads up, it can kill you in a multi way pot, especially if everyone else is going for the low. Who profits in a hand like this? The guy going for high.

With all those little cards fighting for low, the advantage goes to the high hand. True, there are a few ways for D to go broke here, but if he hits anything at all, he either doubles up (takes high, loses low,) or quadruples up (scoops high with no low.)

I'm surprised to say this, given my history with Quizmaster B, but nice quiz! Must be a new guy!

BTW, Full Tilt is back up!

I think it depends on what you're going for the Lo or the Hi pot, but well I never play Hi/Lo I'd rather keep it with just Lo or just Hi ^^!