2008-08-06 - Heads-up flop decision #2

What? From the answer:

"The best your opponent could have - again with the exception of flushes, but you could still outdraw those with a bit of luck - is QQ or a flopped straight

How is this true? Opponent coming over the top, you have to consider you are up against pocket Q's or pocket any of the flop.

And your secocnd card is a lousy 5.

All in with the sure-to-come call would be a good way to lose your stack, imo. Why not wait until your risk is lower?

that means the answer yesterday was wrong!if we are going to call off all our chips with a draw we should have been the one betting, and putting preasure on him.any one say all in yesterday?

[doookie]

I used to really look forward to this daily quiz because I felt the feedback of how people play(and why) was good information. The debate this quiz creates I still think is helpful. But I also hoped maybe I would be somewhat educated on the weaker aspects of my own game and possibly become a better poker player as a result. I'm not ignorant to the math aspects of this game; odds are are major factor in deciding whether a hand is valuble enough to play or should be mucked. But all things considered, other than the call preflop(quizzy stated the raise was the norm for this guy), this hand was played terribly post flop. And apparently we're supposed to throw good money after bad. Unnecesarily risking your tournement life on a draw, this early is a huge mistake in my opinion and judging from the people who chose to fold, I'm not alone. Maybe it's just a difference in playing styles, but there's no way I'm gonna push all in here. Shoulda just called the flop(cheap)bet,tried to make our hand, and outplayed the opponent from there. I'm finally convinced I'm not gonna learn anything here. Thanks anyway.

hmmmmmmm

I suppose the merit of whichever decision you make lies in the results.If you fold and go on to win without a huge gamble than folding was the right decision, and if you reraise and are the favorite or in a flip it was a decent decision as well. I doubt that there are truly fifteen outs there for you but if there are pushing will end up being a good decision. Definately not a no brainer I would likely shove just cuz I like racing in headsup. Folding is just as good a play as pushing.

[Johnny22]

I have to agree with a lot of you. Folding is the right play especially against an overly aggressive opponent. Wait him out and take him down. You know you will find a much better spot to get your money in against such a weaker player so just muck and move on. Let him be on the bad drawing end for his chips. I also disagree with the reraise initially - WHY overplay your bad draw? I have to say that this gets people into situations where they get in over their heads. A smooth call to see the turn would have been fine so try to avoid what the pros call "fancy play syndrome" Now if you had the NUT draw and a couple overs like AdKx then I say go for it, but when there is a strong possibility that you are putting you money in on a draw that may be nearly dead - I say fold and look for better situations to grind him.

I chose all in but rethinking it if this is online I almost guarentee if we arent up against a set the other guy has the ace of diamonds. That pretty much ruins everything... So now I am more in favor of folding, live the all in would be better... online there is always a setup.

TY quizmaster....keep up the poor advice

Whats the point in calling this all in. I dont care what you think Joe. He could have A's, K's, small pair or even the A of diamonds. The draw isnt shit as everyone knows that plays this game. You still have 50x BB why risk it now? Yeah he may be bluffing but, there is a better time to catch him.

[nevadanick]

The whole thing seems to be a series of bad plays, but it is what it is. Given the fact that we raised on the turn, it just seemed logical that we would have to make the all-in bet.

I would have folded pf, but that wasn't an option. We were given info that we raised on the turn that drew a 3-bet. Now what? Why did we do a 3.5x raise if we weren't willing to defend it in the first place.

One other way to think about it is considering how this is any different than HU at a Final Table MTT? Have often seen (live and online) a player go to a shove with any paint. Not that it's right or wrong, but it is a common play.

I like my first idea that folding pf would not have put us in this bad situation.

[Kaydensblinds]

I agree with everyone that it is an easy fold. I like the simi bluff on the flop. ( because remember your on a draw ) And after he makes his re-raise. You have to put yourself at less then a coin flip. And I dont know anyone who would risk all these chips halfway into the first level of play on a draw. THE CORRECT ANWSER IS "FOLD" I really agree with Stan777. You are teaching people the "LUCK" side of poker, when you should be teaching them to make correct laydowns when you know your at a disadvantage. Or making the right calls when you know that YOU have the advantage. Poker is a game of decisions, and one like that sends you to the rail.