2008-06-30 - Final table soon

Originally Posted by p0ker_j0ker

raise it to 1,600 is a 4 times the BB raise and enough to get this player off of a moderate hand plus if he reraises you can get away from the hand and still have 10 BBs left to push when you are in positon to steal a pot!!!!! why risk all my chips when makeing it 4x the BB will 9 out of 10 times get the same result!!!
i just dont get the reasoning behind pushing here.

EXACTLY -----^ what you should do.

[Azhiaziam]

Why you dont raise 4x the bb or any other than all in. You are wrong totally wrong. Nice idea if you want to play like a loser. You raise 4x to 1600 you get raised and fold now you have 10x bb what is your next option? All in with any two cards. The tournament is getting down to the final table. It's over you cant play the whole tournament only raising with aa kk qq ak and so forth and don't say that is all you raise with if you ever won a tournament.
Another point you seem to not realize you have a very low stack and are about to be combined with a very loose table. With mega stacks compared to you. And they are gonna seek out and destroy your lil stack. So go ahead and raise/fold and go allin the next 2-5 hands with a weaker hand like 87 or jq.
The only move is to fold or go allin and with an ace its an allin move on a short table in the BB even if the dealer raised. Unless you want to hope to make the money by folding out.

One more thing the end of a tournament I do not believe is the time to tighten up and not play but to go get your GUS HANSEN hat on and play play play.

[Azhiaziam]

Another quick quiz for you that agree with Joker you are on the button you limp in on a short table of say 5 with 2 folds before you the small blind calls and the bb goes allin with 6000 say you have 13,500 and a KT offsuit or some other hand you would limp in on that situation. Looking around your table you see that everyone is about 15,000 chips the 5 others about to join you and having a hip slapping good time have an average chip stack of double anyone on your table 35,000 you want to put your 5,600 on what is maybe second best hand and if you lose you are gone and if you fold the low stack stays the low stack. So who really would race.

I am one of those tight players. (If I were the one in the BB, I consider that money gone) but being on the button is entirely different. Tight players at this stage of the game and investing this much time to go this far, will limp in to see the flop with good down cards when not in the blinds. But, if they are coming in, they are playing a hand that they will be prepared to call a raise or all-in. With 5800 chips left, raising to 1600, has pretty much pot committed the rest of your chips to this hand. Basicly, you are committing your tournament finish with A/6. So, considering your BB $400 is already gone, why not just check off to see the flop. This tight player will limp in on the button with a great hand when the BB is basicly short stacked, hoping they will try to buy with a raise or all-in. So, once again, at this point I am going to be willing (if I am coming in to the hand) to be prepared to call a raise or an all-in and probably wanting one of the blinds to do it. Not saying that this is good play, I am learning better strategies now. But, I am giving you the thoughts of a 'tight player' and how to counter-act my play. Raising or all-in isn't going to get me off the hand. But, checking to see the flop and then pulling the all-in bet (Unless I hit the nuts) will get me to lay it down. Hope this helps. GG

Being a "lay in the weeds" player at this point, I will limp in with A/face or pkts, hoping that the short stack will go all-in and risk his tournament life with ace/rag. But, then, "laying in the weeds" can give me "poison ivy"....lol gl at the tables!! GG

[tempy]

if you pushed all in do you really think the other players put you on a high pocket pair?, they know your game for a race and like a previous poster said if they have enough chips they will race you. Betting 4 x the bb at a tight table is more than enough to get the job done if he re-riases me then if i had pushed all in i would more than likely be out. Yes going all in may win the pot but i think it was harrington who said, when it doesnt your more than likely out.

[Topis]

Yeah, the button must have a monster because he's limping from the button...

More likely he wants to see a cheap flop with position. With 5-15k stack he would have raised with anything decent. If we bet 1600, he might be tempted to call and we don't want that. Just push, there's 1200 out there already and there's no chance for us to get pushed off our hand.

We need to get some chips to compete in the final table. This is a good spot to get aggressive and exploit the tight players.

[Azhiaziam]

I hate beating a dead horse but your thoughts are totally wrong. I do not see how a good player who is in observance of the field and knows what is going on is not going to raise preflop on the button with a decent hand or even a mediocre hand. I can only see him limping in very few situations slow playing a very strong hand like aces or kings. Or having something along the line of jt suited. Even with aces I doubt he would slow play it. Why would he allow the blinds in with a limp so they can play any two cards a 78 hits a board a lot more often then ak. Also the button has to worry about calling my allin bet because the small blind also limped in. I am not saying checking is totaly wrong but post flop if you hit nothing and the board comes 4qt you got to fold or lose to any bluff of allin if either of your opponents hit a queen or a ten. The best option is to put your money in a short table with an ace and hope to double up and if not start a new tournament. You need chips and the only way you are gonna get them is bet them. The worse case is you are against ak or something and you still have a live card. If you dont start fighting two fisted and scratching biting clawing your way up you will be out of the tournament anyhow so start taking chances.

I just new Quizzies answer would be All-in..........it usually is! So I chose it the win the mythical daily prize.

I would have gone for the $1600 raise

[watchdog26]

Originally Posted by Andyb43

I just new Quizzies answer would be All-in..........it usually is! So I chose it the win the mythical daily prize.

I would have gone for the $1600 raise

So with a raise of $1600 your pot committed anyways, so you might as well go all in and put them to a decision right then and there.