To Limp or not to limp....that is the question ... utg ...

tyty j....always good to read yer comments...:)

i agree with ya of course for the most part....and yup...i got well lucky floppin the nuts
with another player with the 3rd nuts....

yup...i said that an ace flop would leave me doing the happy dance...v cautious....

my plan was to hit good or let it go...this time i made the miracle hit....and doubled my
stack...25$ from a 25c light gamble...its a donk play....i know,,,but a donk play with
very good potential...:)....

thing is...with this hand...i didnt just want to play my target...i wanted others in
too...i got paid off by a tighish Q&dd in the bb that woulda prolly folded to a raise from
utg...

sure i got lucky and i know it...but its good when a plan comes together..:):)...

tyty again for yer comment...i liked what ya said on tides' blog too...:)...may the farce
be with ya, j..:)

i ran those hands through my poker odds calc and that was the figures they said...might be
a mistake tho...

nh and lucky as it played out
I'm with slo-mo here that it depends on table situation etc, on a passive and limp-happy
table limping A rag suited in ep has its merits, as you might get some worse suited hands
to jump in (or bb not to fold ;) ) and likely stack them if you flop a flush. obv any
combo draw, wheel, trips, boat, quads will do too. but how often do you really flop this
good and have somebody willing to stack off either with some strong hand or being a
spewtard? odds for flopping a flush over flush are less than 0.5%, 1.5% for trips+. on A
high flops you could likely be trailing, even (turning) 2 pair could get you in a tough
spot sometimes, sitting oop.
with your target on the button you have 6 hands per orbit with position on him, so there
should be better spots to play a hand vs him imo.. so yeah, limping is ok sometimes but
i'd rather isolate in position and barrel no matter what if he check/calls-check/folds a
lot, play tighter if he's a non-believer and value bet the sht out of him

i don't think the reasoning in your example where you would call a pot raise with 1 other
caller is good, rather spewy. you say you're 30% vs KK and a tight calling range, should
be closer to 25%, and that's for all streets not just the flop. bad position, maybe not
even relative position if some limper calls behind and 7 to max 10% flops you're willing
to continue on sounds not very ++ev to me, and the rare times you flop a monster you'll
not get paid every time.

yup i limped i was playing a micro sng

aahhh,...sorry tides...with all this poker wak wak goin down a nearly forgot to answer
your question....my bad..:)...

would you be enquiring as to the african or european coconut there...?...

vn there ed...:)....yup...

did ya limp utg there with yer A2..?....just out of interest...??...

one of the possible advantages of this limp play, is that the more callers one get, the
greater the chances that one of em hits too...but less of a hit than than the sooted
Ace.....like in eds hand ....

if an ace comes on the flop i sure aint doin' the happy dance there with my A3....

i wouldnt have even considered limping in with K3 sooted,,,nope,,,not for a moment....but
the sooted ace gives the limp that lil extra edge imo....worth a limp sometimes
maybe....:)

just had a simmilar hand on hero i was utg with a-2 s the flop made my flush he hit 2 pair
i took most of his chippies

tyty slo and schwede for yer comments...

as you rightly say, slo...to raise it up with A3 is a fake...a bluff...hoping to take the
pot down there and then maybe....a pot c-bet on the flop ( continuing to sell the monster
bluff ) and bob's yer uncle...if everyone folds...

i'm not unpartial to a bluff from time to time,,,,but utg on a plhe table aint my idea of
timing...a tourney can be very different ...stack sizes etc...blind pressures....but a
cash table can be merciless to the early position bluffer....i would rather bluff ( pre)
in later pos maybe...or make a squeeze in the blinds....once the flop comes, bluffin out
of pos can be real expensive....like you say slo...position can be the key,,,,

what if i actually wanted to play an honest hand...( say it aint so,,,ed...)...what if i
had no intention of telling a story....if i dont hit the flop...i just let the hand
go....

my hand-plan here was simple....try to get in as cheap as possible and see what
hits....the cheaper the better....i want to minimise my potential losses and maximise my
potential gain....if i dont hit the flop...i gets outa dodge sharpish....

ie ...have little in the pot when i lose...and a lot in when i win....i want as many
people in the pot as possible.... to raise utg would be self defeating to this end as it
would prolly force the hands i wanted to stay in to fold....

say yer in the bb...and yer holdin a very marginal hand such as K 10...or Q7 sooted....utg
raises pot...its folded round...what ya gonna do....fold 'em prolly....they are the range
of hands i wanted in this pot...not out of it...

sure...a raise utg might have taken the pot down there and then for
35c....whoopiiieeee....:)....i wanted to win a big pot...or lose a little trying....

anyways...the flop came 3 diamonds....the bb led out....i raised to make a possible set
pay for a boat draw,,,,and got put all in for my $25 stack....i insta flipped the A-flush
of course, and took down a $50 pot when Bb showed Q7dd.....

would q7 soooted in the BB have folded to an utg pot raise..??....

lol..no offense taken at all schwede...the only reason i was playin this table ...which
was pot limit, not limit, was that there was no action at all on my regular cash grinding
tables...limit holdem as it happens...lol....gotta play a lot tighter and more
aggressively in limit holdem...yup...and as you know , pot limit pots often get higher
than no limit pots at the same stakes...so the potential winnings of one hand are greater
relative to the buy-in....certainly than limit....

the hyena and the spider

they let me go after 3.5hrs of work. YES!!!!!! :D

say it gets raised to $1.50 and the bb calls too......hmmm i wonder how the pot should
reach $1.50 if u start to limp in? are u hoping to find more than 2 players to play with
u? i think 1 of the biggest problems in limit-poker is the little space u have to tell a
good story. if u start ur story with a limp it can become difficult to continue ur story
on flop.(betsize etc.) if u play A/3s utg then sell it as AA KK or something...just like
slo-mo said. the easiest way to hide ur hand-strength in limit is not to limp. if u raise
77 like u raise AK it´s tough to get a read.to raise everything beneath 77 is
questionable.( just my opinion).and don´t expect thinkingplayers on these low-limits.
maybe u should play flhe $0.10/0.20 at 4-6 tables, choose ur starting hands better and
play them more aggressively?? just an opinion, no offense....

I have a question for you ....Do Coconuts Migrate??

awesome video...23...lmao....can't believe they didnt throw the kitchen sink!!
..and Hi Voltage Question.......enjoying all the comments.....and learning also....


when do we get more info .......

I think limping or not is dictated by the composition of the table tbh. I usually don't,
but really it's dictated by the table make-up as to whether I do or not. As for limping
with A3 UTG, the main reason I wouldn't do it is because of position, I think if your
going to play with this hand then raise it up, fake that strong hand and play it
accordingly.

tyty bob....that was the idea.....i sometimes limp aces utg or +1 hoping to get an
isolated raise....if the table is particularly loose aggressive and i think i will be
raised....a raise utg often induces the fold from hands that might otherwise give aa/kk a
bit of value....

its not a problem to let go of A3 if isolated against one raiser pre...but 30% odds
against 2 others has good ev imo....

the thought was about minimizing risk for maximum potential....if A3 hits 2 pr...or the
flush makes...i would have very good value from my original 25c investment....85c already
in the pot...

say it gets raised to $1.50 and the bb calls too....i am still happy to put in $1.25 into
a $3.35 pot here...its marginal mathematically....

deinen scherzen sind besser wie meinen vielleicht...lol....und mein gramatik..??...oo la
la...ou est mon rongeur..??... ( sniff sniff...ed..)....



in case the above dont work...its the same below...:)....

smells of what...???

I'll start off by saying I don't play cash tables that often, so fair warning that my
opinion here might be completely wrong.

Having said that, I don't see a problem with limping in a cash game even UTG. It does
become a problem if you limp your weak hands and raise your strong hands as you are
telegraphing you hands. As long as you balance your limping range, I don't see a problem
with it.

As for limping A3 suited UTG, I think you want a plan for what you are going to do if
others raise behind you. If the table is fairly passive and others just call behind like
in your example, you're getting to see a cheap flop and hope you hit it big.

If you have decent post flop skills and know how to play if an ace hits the board and you
might be out kicked, then I don't see a problem with limping UTG here.

no worries 23...i can talk english aswell. was just joking a lil´ bit! ;) if u need me to
translate...let me know. but i guess u got my point...limping in limit-poker is an NO-GO,
def. especially when ur target is sitting on the button....he´ll call ur raise( if u
raise and don´t limp) ,because of his position and this is what u want.get called by a
fish and get paid. right? and with a raise utg u prob get a hu with him. gtg to work
now.....that sucks........

23 - Vielen dank fur ihre freundlichen wurte. Mein Deutsch ist nicht so gut, entweder.
Vielleicht könnten wir eine Pidgin-Deutsch sprechen einige Zeit. Wahnsinnige (had to look
that one up!!!)

look nobby...i'm the clown in these parts... ....

yoyo schwede....danke fur dein answort...ich bin ein englischer und ich in deutcshland
lebe..mein deutcsh ist nicht sehr gut,

i agree with ya schwede...yup....be ready to cap or fold....i usually play only
agressively...i soooooo seldom limp....especially in limit games...but this was pot
limit....and i was out of position looking for ev and a multiway pot....gambling
light.... got to mix it up a bit sometimes...:)...table image etc....

i wanted to be able to fold my Ace-rag if i was going to be isolated against one other
player to a pot raise.....( 33% vs KK ),,,,but with 2 other players in...i would have 30%
against KK and JT for example.....i can live with that gamble,,,,,,i can always fold real
easy for my 25c if i dont hit the flop.....i'm playing well inside my bankroll management
here....

i agree with ya schwede....90%.....i will ask mrs 418 to translate properly when she gets
in..:)..tyty again for yer comment...:)...more please....:)....

eine der grundregeln im limit poker: es wird NICHT gelimpt! s die hände, die du spielen
möchtest, werden aggressiv ( cappen ) oder garnicht gespielt. sonst kommt ja nix ( geld )
dabei rum! :P ;)

I limp alot but then I've got a dodgy knee .
23 anything you do is right in my book!!