Mathematics in Poker

Haha! A picture really paints a thousand words. Thanks for confirming what I believe in.

Math is always going to be a big part of the game, but not nearly as important as poker skill and instinct.

Im sure you have heard of it, but if not read up on the story of Andy Beal vs The Corporation.

Thanks man. I will look it up right away.

I've just read it and what does it have to do about math? Is Andy Beal a representative of math? Seriously, I don't know. Thanks again.

Oh, yeah he is. I've just read.

Thank you for your comment on my blog...to learn to win $$$. Nice to hear someone with the same goals. As far as math goes...Its really important in online poker, much more so than live.

I have been playing these 4 person shootouts which is two heads up matches. To have an "advantage" that is to say to profit. you need to win half of the time. sounds good right? It is. To win a nine player sitngo you have to beat eight other players to get the same payoff as beating two in these heads up shootouts.

I have also found that headsup is intense,you need to not get trapped but trapping the Op. is key. Then once you have them short exploite any mathematical advantage to get the chips in.any above average hand to take their blinds or make them gamble with an average hand.

Also I think the best math thing I have learned about poker is the rule of 2 and 4....flushdraw 9 outs with the turn and river to come = 9x4=36% to make your hand"rough but very close" so you can "break even" calling a pot size bet. The advantage is in calling smaller bets of course. with the river only to come multiply by 2. Any more tips or thoughts on these things will be helpful...TY Brad

Also I guess I should further explain ...Just count your outs to making the nuts and multiply those accordingly. Chris Furgesons tips on bankroll managment are also very good. Brad

Hey Brad, thanks man. I noticed in your blog that you are a methodical player. I hate to play with people like you (lol). That is when I lose. Well, thank you for your tips, and I have read about the bankroll management of Fergeson. I couldn't agree with you more that it is very helpful. With that system, one will not be bankrupted easily. I'll check your blog once in a while, for I think I can learn a lot from you. Thanks again.

I believe much more in the Mathematics of Fear at the Poker table... Yes Math helps.. But Ruthless aggression in a Tournament is definatley the better Strategy... Ask Gus Hansen, Erick Lindgren, Phil Ivey, David Pham... OK thats all I got.. I believe in a cash game you have some backin in your theory.. But definatley not in a Tourney..

SHaZam Good discussion

CireRensle

Math is a important component of successful poker play but relying only on math will not lead to winning poker play. IMHO accurate opponent modeling is just as important if not more important. The basic math behind poker is rather simple and should only take a few weeks/months(depending on the person) to fully understand and be able to use in real life situations. However, understanding what and why your opponents make their choices can take a life time.

I agree that aggression is very important. in tournements and in cash, but then I struggle with huge variance in mtts if I go this route.Mostly variance to the negative...also profiling your opponents at a tabe IS very important.It can be huge in cash and mtt you also have to know the right thing to do when one of these same opponents provide an opportunity. as in....you have queens in the BB and the maniac to your right just raised pre flop...shove right? or call and make sure there are no A or K ? these things have been killing me in mtt. Its low stakes ussually and the maniac calles with A3 and wins...I've been really thinking alot lately about how to minimize the downside in MTT. It starts with the profiles of the others at the table then goes to my starting hands...High reward low risk... pocket paires suited aces and some others in postion...OOOO ya postion lol...probably the most important thing in poker as far as profit goes... till next time

You guys make me really glad I joined railbirds. I am very new to poker, and I will try to mix up your ideas. So math, definitely, is one of the components of playing good poker. The question now is how big a component it is. Well, I'll try to see If I can solve this. Thanks.

IMHO You need to learn the basic math (outs, pot-odds etc) of poker to be a good beginner. You need some pretty advanced math (game theory amongst other bits) to be really great at this game.

And in between these two lives the poker player who "doesn't believe in maths".

There are lots of great beginners books I recommend King Yao "Weighing the odds in Holdem Poker" ... but don't tackle Bill Chen's book without willing to commit a week or so to each chapter (otherwise your head may explode ... I'm not kidding)
Check out A55A55INS strategy Guide and look for TopCats blogs that show the percentages in various common situations you may find yourself in. Learn these.

Check out SmileyHere's page for the BlueHeron project. All the number's you would need are here.

Finally get yourself a good Holdem Calculator (PokerStove or ProPokerTools .. just Google these) and work the numbers.

The maths will not replace everything else you may need, but you'll be much better off with it.

Hope this helps a little

It will sure help a lot. Thanks man. I'll look those books up and the software as well. Judging from what you guys tell, I can say you are no longer beginners in this game. I'll practice more, and hopefully I can give some quality advices too.

i think this is one of my favforite threads that I've read here...love all the input.

cardplayer.com has a great poker calc. for TH and omaha...I think Daniel Negraunue( sorry if thats miss spelled Daniel)...said " I think I have a good mix of the 'new' mathematical poker and the old road gamblers..'I just don't think you got it'. Always liked that quote.Also wilson turbo texas holdem has been a HUGE revelation to me...yes it costs some cash but its a tremedous tool.

Math is certainly an important component of poker, and understanding that element is important. But remember, it is also a game involving incomplete information. In other words, a challenging puzzle, the solution to which involves math plus skill in reading your opponents, and ultimately the ability to make good decisions based on the best information you can collect.

Yep, math is important but you got to have the patience to wait for those quality hands and correct pot odds situations to call, bet, raise etc. If you've gotten interested in poker through TV, you have no idea of how slow the action really is. Players often go HOURS without playing a hand. Patience is a big key in poker. During the WSOP broadcasts one of the announcers indicated that Mike Matasou had not played a hand in several hours. You know that he likes to play crap. Patience my friend, patience.

Thank you all for your valuable inputs. Well, probably against pros, letting math decide more often might be suicidal. However to those beginners like me, I may have an edge against them if I apply mathematical principles in my game. A good input in this thread explained that it is more advantageous in ring games that tournaments. That sounds likely. I've been playing a lot and trying to act in accordance to pot odds and so on, I think I'm not doing bad. Neither am I doing great, however. And BRAD, thanks man. I checked it out.