My railbird time: 

Members:
Members online:
Members in chat:
65758
173
0
Railbirds Tournaments:
Next freeroll: 9 h, 43 m
All tournaments

Railbird Interviews
Use a Railbird anner on your homepage

Rakeback deals

Full Tilt 27%
$600/100%
Betfair 30-37%
$1500/100%
DTDPoker 30%
$450/100%
Opoker 30%
$450/100%
Betsafe 30%
$500/100%
Poker Heaven 30%
$750/100%
Fortune Poker 30%
$1500/200%
FatBet Poker 50%
$0/0%
UltimateBet 30%
$1100/111%
Absolute 30%
$500/100%
CakePoker 33%
$500/100%
High5Action 20-60%
$6500/100%
Minted Poker 35%
$400/100%
PKR.com 30%
$600/100%
Action Poker 35%
$2500/100%
PayNoRake 50-100%
$0/0%
PokerNordica 30%
$400/200%
IronDuke 30%
$300/100%

Bonus deals

Everest $5000/month
$300/500%
Chili Poker $600/150%
$600/150%
RedKings PS3 & Fifa 09
$400/2000%
Goal Win $2000 bonus
$2000/2000%
Betsson 30GB iPod
$0/0%

Special deals

Pacific Poker
$100/25%
LuckyAce Poker Pokerbility
$400/100%
Littlewoods Poker Loyalty Program
$400/100%
Propaganda Loyalty Bonus
$600/200%

Emotions and Poker do they belong together?

Nov 19, 2008 6:36 am Report Abuse

Ok so tonight I am chatting with some firends and it seems to methat one friend is upset about the calls and play being done at his table, now this seems to have affected his play which led me to this little piece of info.

“The advantage of the emotions is that they lead us astray, and the advantage of science is that it is not emotional.”
–Oscar Wilde

Main Entry: emotion

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle French, from emouvoir to stir up, from Old French esmovoir, from Latin emovEre to remove, displace, from e- + movEre to move

1. A mental state that arises spontaneously rather than through conscious effort and is often accompanied by physiological changes; a feeling: the emotions of joy, sorrow, reverence, hate, and love.
2. A state of mental agitation or disturbance: spoke unsteadily in a voice that betrayed his emotion.
3. The part of the consciousness that involves feeling; sensibility: “The very essence of literature is the war between emotion and intellect” (Isaac Bashevis Singer).

Traditional poker wisdom has said that emotion has no place in poker. Frustration, anger, and other “negative” emotions that can lead one to a mental state outside the one designed to make logical poker decisions can be harmful for the bankroll.

So how can one of the most successful poker tournament players in history be one of the most emotional players on the circuit? How can Phil Hellmuth consistently perform well in tournaments, despite consistently achieving a “state of mental agitation” whenever the cards do not fall in his favor? How can Mike Matusow, who puts Hamlet’s insanity act to shame every time the cameras are rolling, be one of the most successful tournament players in the past two months? Is it possible that “emotional poker players” have an edge in tournament poker?

In order to answer this question, we need to break down the most common reasons people get emotional at the poker table.

1. Frustration with results

The most common display of emotion among poker players occurs when they encounter a negative result (not surprisingly, positive results are more often welcomed by relative stoicism, unless your name is Mattias Andersson). When a player makes the statistically correct play and loses the pot, there is a greater amount of frustration than when they fail to suck out on a better hand. This type of frustration most likely results from the fundamental belief that if you make the right decision, you will be rewarded with a positive result. While this belief holds true in many situations in life, it does not take the role of luck into account. Pocket deuces beat pocket aces nearly 1 out of every 5 times, so the underdog is going to win a lot more times than one would expect if they don’t know the odds.

Those that become frustrated when a result doesn’t match performance have a fundamental misunderstanding of gambling theory. The thing that baffles me is that some of the best players in the world still get angry when the cards don’t fall their way. If “there was no luck in this game,” it wouldn’t be much of a game– a bunch of professionals pushing razor thin edges until the house ends up the only winner.

One would think that someone who has an emotional connection to a bad result might be more likely to avoid risks that would end in frustration or anger. In other words, emotional players would be more likely to sit and wait for the nuts, as they have been negatively reinforced to avoid bad beats. This would suggest that emotional players are more likely to survive than those who see no emotional downside to losing their money when they are a favorite.

Personally, I think that survival is overrated in a tournament– even the best players have a relatively small chance to win a tournament, so players like Phil Ivey and Daniel Negreanu achieve success by pushing their small edges at every chance they have. However, it seems that the greater the number of players capable of making hopeless plays, the greater the advantage for the player who focuses on “survival.” No need to take weighted coin flips when players will bluff their chips off to you with Ace high.


2. Frustration with performance

The second most common display of negative emotion among poker players is frustration or anger at their performance. This most frequently takes the form of the statement “I know better” or “I should have known,” and frequently occurs when a player goes against his or her instincts, or the opposite case, when the player lets odds win out over instincts and makes the incorrect play. This one hits closer to home for me, as I tend to be pretty hard on myself for mental mistakes. Example (limit poker): loose player raises in middle position, I defend my blind with Q9o or the like. Flop comes AQ4, and by the odds our second pair is probably good against loose guy, whose hand range is pretty wide. We check and call, resolved that we are way ahead or way behind, and he’ll bluff off his chips with a hand like TT. Turn comes an Ace, making it less likely that he is holding an Ace, but when he bets the turn our gut tells us he’s got the ace. I’ll usually be Math guy here and call him down, and usually end up frustrated when loose guy shows me the ace.

While this form of negative emotion seems more productive than results-based emotion (you can correct your incorrect decision, but you have no control over the way the cards fall), it can still make for poor play. People tend to remember emotional experiences, and remembering when a player outplays you might cause one to overcompensate for a previous call or raise, and make the incorrect play. Following the above idea that players who have strong negative emotion based on poor performance, the emotional player will attempt to play their best at all times, and avoid the negative emotion that comes with making an incorrect decision.

Using the above line of reasoning, it’s possible that negative emotional experiences based on performance can help one to remember the bad plays and improve upon them in similar future situations.

3. “Injustice”

Most bad beat stories end in a punch line of, “You’ll never guess what he had” or some similar phrase summing up the unbelievably bad play of the fishy bad beat administrator. A common source of frustration and anger is the injustice of the poker gods: the unlucky protagonist will lose on the river when he is a 90% favorite, and become frustrated when his clueless opponent achieves better results than he does. The mighty protagonist has studied for countless hours and considers himself a very good player, and when his opponent makes a poor play he feels the injustice of the game– knowledge and skill cannot defeat luck in poker, and this leads to frustration on the part of the player defeated by luck. This type of emotional response is similar to the two responses described above, but the frustration experienced by the “good player” is often directed at the poor player (”you can’t even spell poker&rdquo or perhaps the poker gods (”I can never win a race&rdquo.

This frustration may lead to self-doubt, or questioning the value of the game of poker. An understanding of gambling theory can help deal with this type of frustration, but I think that emotions that force introspection and questioning usually end up being productive.

***

It’s hard for me to identify with guys like Hellmuth and Matusow, but their results argue that emotion doesn’t seem to have a negative impact on tournament finishes. On a personal level, I try to take joy in good performance, and try not to beat myself up too much for poor performance. Without some measure of emotion, you might as well be a poker bot.

In answer to the question, “Do emotional poker players have an advantage in tournament poker?” I think the jury is still out. Plenty of players who don’t outwardly display emotion (Lederer, Greenstein, Ivey) have had better results than anyone, but “emotional players” have had their share of victories as well. My gut tells me that emotion might give a player a little edge somewhere, but I can’t quite work it out. The emotional player has more at stake in a way, and higher stakes may result in better play.

Or maybe they’re just goofballs who catch cards.



22 comments


Login to add comment... Sort order

Solarsun Nov 19, 2008 6:58 am
Well said...I love this blog.....
cj28000 Nov 19, 2008 7:52 am
good blog

i tend to remember the hands i suck out on and the hands i have a gotten sucked out on.

i remember when i suck out because it is the response of me making the mistake in the first place by moving in as an underdog and putting my tourny life on the line.

the bad beats are the same thing but in reverse because i want to win every tourny i play it is then ingrained into my head what the hand was and who did it

i think emotion is a bad thing when you are still in a tournament because it will force you to play hands diffrently then you would under the normal circumstances
X_DragonKing Nov 19, 2008 8:01 am
I have a problem of bringing my emotions from the last tournament into my next one. I and others need to chill to be better players I believe
dooman Nov 19, 2008 8:56 am
too long to read sigh i get the point got my money back hehehe
akaCLINT Nov 19, 2008 12:25 pm

very nice and wellwritten blog..., might just put you on my subscription list...

Keep ´em comin´!

Alchemist Nov 19, 2008 3:42 pm

Awesome Blog

AngryDragon Nov 19, 2008 4:16 pm

Emotion (Anger/frustration) = tilt

Tilt = monetary loss (usually) therefore

Emotion = BAD

I get very disappointed with myself if I make an error at a critical moment in a tournament ( or elated by a great move), then think it over and chalk it up to experience. I don't think I will experience any long-lasting 'joy' over doing well unless I win the ME at the Aussie Million or WSOP .

I noticed you used the idea of 'luck' a few times in this blog too. Maybe it's the people who believe in this that also are more prone to emotive poker playing. There is no such thing as 'luck'. There is the set fall of the cards after they are shuffled and the choice to call or fold, from pre-flop to river. That's it.

Lastly, Phil Hellmuth hams it up for the spectators, living up to his 'bad-tempered wanker' reputation. I seriously doubt this is anything more than an act, if it is, maybe he shakes off the loss by 'acting out'.

Good blog though, enjoyed the read .

theKizing Nov 19, 2008 4:31 pm
Well written ! Emotion is tough to control. I think with guys like Matusow and Hellmuth it's more intimidation of the table that gets players to fold a hand that they might normally play, and they realize that and use it to their advantage. That intimidation causes others to let their emotions creep into the equation. The key is to not let the head game mess with the card game, and that is often a tall challenge. The first time Hellmuth calls someone an idiot and that someone drops him like a bag of dirt with a swift right hook, he will rethink that routine.Until then, if it ain't broke.................
REGULATOR0 Nov 19, 2008 4:38 pm
THIS IS WHAT CHRIS FERGUSON DOES SO WELL. HE IS A POKER MACHINE !
SiresnMe Nov 19, 2008 4:42 pm

"1. A mental state that arises spontaneously rather than through conscious effort and is often accompanied by physiological changes;"

or this could be the definition of "Ex-Wife or Ex-Husband"

20_lb_stack Nov 19, 2008 4:43 pm
I try to keep my emotions under control as much as I can and not get overly attached to my chipstack.. I don't get overjoyed at winning a hand or depressed at losing one. If you are playing on emotion, you arealready well on the way to losing. I'll take cold calculation at the table anytime.
RansomHammer Nov 19, 2008 4:54 pm
Emotion+Money=Broke
bigDH2506 Nov 19, 2008 5:01 pm
nice blog... i know that sometimes my emotions can lead to making so bad plays so I have keep them in check haha
julyangels Nov 19, 2008 5:04 pm

I'm putting a cap on the emotions where poker is concerned. It just gets in the way...

Sure is hard to beat a nice person though sometimes. But then I realize, given the chance, they will gladly have my stack.

I tilt rarely. And if I do, it lasts about 30 seconds.

spamlord Nov 19, 2008 5:06 pm
definitely, there's a time and a place for emotions and the poker table ain't it. if i start getting frustrated with one particular player at the table, they're usually the one who busts me about 20 hands down the line
sohail Nov 19, 2008 5:07 pm
I think players such as Hellmuth and Matusaw use their emotion as a tool. I rarely see their emotions effect the way they play their game. They are professionals that have mastered every aspect of their game. But, emotions do effect us mortals, mainly bacause we have not mastered our game the way these professionals have.
RockchalkBaby Nov 19, 2008 5:11 pm

I love that blog! Very well done!

That last line...that's me!!!

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeomppppppppppppppp!!!

Nightrider7 Nov 19, 2008 8:55 pm
Well said, emotion is a tool which can be either positive or negative. I seem to get a feeling that the player hit his miracle card on a flop or turn ...and then have to make the call or fold decision. I think that is when emotion is best used as a positive tool. When I ignore that feeling is when I usually get the bad beat or suck out. I just need to trust that feeling more. Perhaps emotional players know this and use it to there advantage more.
tiltaholic Nov 19, 2008 9:08 pm

The emotional mind affects the logical mind, ,goal being to try to separate our emotions from our thinking... but good luck with that one as emotions are far more powerful.

I have alot of respect for players like Allan Cunningham, Eric Siedel (and many others) who seem to be very good at keeping emotions out of their game. Emotions are for sure my biggest leak in my game. Reading books by Schoonmaker and others, along the lines of pyschology and poker have been very helpful but it is an ongoing process for me and still needs ALOT of work (hence the name 'tiltaholic', lol).

Caaat Nov 19, 2008 9:27 pm

Awesome blog!!! And very well said.

I know people that get really overly emotional aka..really pizzed, at losses and this does affect their play in a negative way. I get downhearted.... but have only gotten really pissed off once....lol.. but it was the sickest suck out in tournament play that I have ever endured. But I gave them a "vn ahem hand" then sat and watched them get outplayed 4 hands later and put out.. So yayy! But I'm a firm believer (no matter if it works for matusow and helmuth) that emotions ie anger and poker do not mix well together at all.

Awesome blog!!!!

and for those that are wondering about the suck out... this was last year in the U.S. Freeroll on FT before I was a member here


Showing page: 1 / 2

Login on Railbirds


© Copyright 2009