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Not a Donk Move, is it?

Nov 17, 2008 3:42 pm Report Abuse

Far as I can tell, I don't think I was wrong. Short handed, strong preflop raise to narrow the field. Correct me if I'm wrong.

PokerStars Game #22117436183: Tournament #121096851, $1.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2008/11/17 9:31:19 ET
Table '121096851 1' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 2: ptcv (5590 in chips)
Seat 5: Mispelld (2480 in chips)
Seat 6: jandlhart8 (1650 in chips)
Seat 7: nelliesman93 (1010 in chips)
Seat 9: aacevedo (2770 in chips)
ptcv: posts small blind 50
Mispelld: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jandlhart8 KhJh
jandlhart8: raises 600 to 700
nelliesman93: folds
aacevedo: calls 700
ptcv: folds
Mispelld: folds
*** FLOP *** Qh5hTh
jandlhart8: checks
aacevedo: bets 2070 and is all-in
jandlhart8: calls 950 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (1120) returned to aacevedo
*** TURN *** Qh5hTh Kd
*** RIVER *** Qh5hThKd 6c
*** SHOW DOWN ***
jandlhart8: shows KhJh (a flush, King high)
aacevedo: shows 9h9c (a pair of Nines)
aacevedo said, "lucky donk"
jandlhart8 collected 3450 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3450 | Rake 0
Board Qh5hThKd6c
Seat 2: ptcv (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Mispelld (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: jandlhart8 showed KhJh and won (3450) with a flush, King high
Seat 7: nelliesman93 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: aacevedo (button) showed 9h9c and lost with a pair of Nines



28 comments


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tjjmemjt Nov 17, 2008 3:50 pm

Don't think you a donk at all, lucky flop but not a donk

epavese Nov 17, 2008 3:52 pm
I agree, not a donk move at all, if only a bit too aggressive and also a bit risky (a raise to 400 or so would accomplish the same thing without risking your stack like that) The thing is a call commits you to the pot with a raise like that, where 400 doesn't
slavocash Nov 17, 2008 3:53 pm
Tha preflop raise is way too big, KJs isn't that great of a hand, especially under the gun, i would probably just fold that preflop, i mean if you raise to 700 then you have pot odds to call a shove, i dont like your preflop playing at all.
aTurdtle Nov 17, 2008 4:00 pm
Your call on the flop wasn't donk at all but your pre-flop raise was "donkish". You raise 6x the big blind when you had plently of chips. K J on suit is not a tier 1 hand, and raising that much pre-flop can lead to you getting dominated the majority of the time.
friedfish4dinnr Nov 17, 2008 4:01 pm
nice play
Tatvet Nov 17, 2008 4:07 pm

Not a donk-move, if a little aggressive for me.

KJ suited strong but not super strong, but then again the call of that much with 99 and then all in with nothing caught on the flop is donkish too IMO.

If everyone played exactly by the formulae there would be no skill in it would there? Only raise with the nuts?

I suppose ultimately did you finish in the money? If so great move, if not, meh!

Sagger Nov 17, 2008 4:09 pm

Dont think it was a donk move. High cards suited, pre-fop raise probably more than required but you flopped the flush. Nice hand

Totenbach Nov 17, 2008 4:19 pm
The raise may have been a bit high but hey, it worked out. Playing the KJ suited is in no means a donk move. Don't care what any books say. I probably would have bet a bit lower with it but I can guarantee I would have raised with it too. Who knows, if you had only bet 300, the guy with 9's may have reraised alot higher or all in together, forcing a "maybe" fold on your part anyhow. So, all in all....whatever. He's just cryin cuz he lost.
CtPokerholic Nov 17, 2008 4:24 pm

you must not have read the rule..

"you must fold when aacevedo calls your raise or you'll be called a donk"

Lakeluvr Nov 17, 2008 4:25 pm
I'll generally agree about the size of the raise, but disagree with his comment. I mean after all with three over cards on the board did he have any reasonable expectation that his 9s were still good.
mickdorf Nov 17, 2008 4:28 pm
I agree not donk, but very aggressive raise preflop
JaeDy Nov 17, 2008 4:28 pm

A little thing I'm trying to teach myself to do is remeber the "Three-bet." Base all of your raises on what 3x BB is; you can raise 4 is you want more info or less if you really WANT somebody to call and for you to see a flop, etc...

A raise to 7x BB is massive. Plus the all-in on flop I can tell you're afraid of Ah but you've got the second nuts. Usually you're still just looking for somebody to shove more chips in. An all-in on the flop would scare a non-donkish player with 99 away, which I personally wouldn't want.

palrs Nov 17, 2008 4:29 pm
i think it just a case of some one trying to steal the pot to go all in with a flop full of hearts ..... who's the donk there two suited high cards a strong preflop bet me thinks he/she was not paying attention to his/her opposition as someone who is guilty of this I can see it but to call you or anyone a donk is not acceptable and in the wpt fines are starting to be handed out if the name calling is presistant ...
Kijjo Nov 17, 2008 4:31 pm
KJs is not a hand you want to play in this position unless u think u can limp and folks might be worried that you have a monster utg and just let u see it for cheap (in this case he would have probably raised with 99 and I would have folded).
It turned out nice for u, but what if you only got two hearts and the flop and he shoves? Now you've committed yourself to the pot without a made hand.
If you want to move past the $1.20 games, you're going to have to play stronger positional poker.
tjyff Nov 17, 2008 4:33 pm
Not a donk. The other guy was either dumb or angry. Good check call though. Made him push all in.
bjohn13 Nov 17, 2008 4:36 pm

A lot of poeple stated that they thought your raise is too big, but no one has yet correctly stated why.

It's all about the size of your chip stack. That prefop raise of 7X the BB put you in a situation where you were pot vested. You've got 950 left in your stack, and the size of the pot is 1550.

You always want to be thinking about stack sizes and pot sizes. The best case scenario when you are close to being short stacked (but not quite) is to have as much in the pot as you have left in your stack if you were to be called by one player. The perfect raise for this spot would be to 500. That would leave 1150 in your stack, and it would put 1150 in the pot if you were to be called.

ButtonDog Nov 17, 2008 4:44 pm
I would have just raised about 4X myself. A lot of people tend to believe that a to big of a raise indicates weakness in the cards.

He should have folded on the flop with those suited cards out there. He was married to his pocket 9's when he should have been willing to fold even if one of those hearts had been a third 9. To dangerous of a flop for him to even consider staying in with.
cloniefan191 Nov 17, 2008 4:44 pm
A pot raise would have been my 1st move-Then an ALL IN after seeing the flop. He took the bait so his fish was fried-gl at the tables.
Pyromaan Nov 17, 2008 5:03 pm

U got lucky on the flop.

Why would u put such a big piece of ur stack in preflop with a hand like KJ. This hand looks nice but u do need a nice flop otherwise there are plenty of hands that have u beat.

Especially UTG I would've preferred to limp or min raise this hand. This gives u the ability to let this hand go when someone pushes allin preflop.

By raising this big, It's pretty hard to fold when someone decides to push allin behind u. In that case he prolly has a hand that's better than urs and that could mean exit for u. IMO KJ isn't worth that scenario.

Postflop u obv had the best of it and there wasn't much that could go wrong.

GL and TC

HollywoodVictor Nov 17, 2008 5:11 pm

You only had 16 bb's left, and your preflop raise says you're going all the way with the hand no matter what (30% of your stack in preflop). You were better off just shoving this hand, he would have looked you up with the 9's anyway.

In the future, however, pay attention to how much of your stack you're putting in pre. If it's around 30% or more, you should just shove.

A great quote from Dan "The Man" Harrington - "Some players won't know what you're up to and some won't even try to figure it out. A fish will see you as an even bigger fish." HE was actually the donk in this hand, because he couldn't fold his 99 to an obvious made flush.


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