My railbird time: 

Members:
Members online:
Members in chat:
65754
507
0
Railbirds Tournaments:
Next freeroll: 16 h, 18 m
All tournaments

Railbird Interviews
Use a Railbird anner on your homepage

Rakeback deals

Full Tilt 27%
$600/100%
Betfair 30-37%
$1500/100%
DTDPoker 30%
$450/100%
Opoker 30%
$450/100%
Betsafe 30%
$500/100%
Poker Heaven 30%
$750/100%
Fortune Poker 30%
$1500/200%
FatBet Poker 50%
$0/0%
UltimateBet 30%
$1100/111%
Absolute 30%
$500/100%
CakePoker 33%
$500/100%
High5Action 20-60%
$6500/100%
Minted Poker 35%
$400/100%
PKR.com 30%
$600/100%
Action Poker 35%
$2500/100%
PayNoRake 50-100%
$0/0%
PokerNordica 30%
$400/200%
IronDuke 30%
$300/100%

Bonus deals

Everest $5000/month
$300/500%
Chili Poker $600/150%
$600/150%
RedKings PS3 & Fifa 09
$400/2000%
Goal Win $2000 bonus
$2000/2000%
Betsson 30GB iPod
$0/0%

Special deals

Pacific Poker
$100/25%
LuckyAce Poker Pokerbility
$400/100%
Littlewoods Poker Loyalty Program
$400/100%
Propaganda Loyalty Bonus
$600/200%

post-flop omaha cash game

Nov 14, 2008 9:23 pm Report Abuse

pot-limit omaha is often described as a flop-game, so i want concentrate on some of the more complex probelms of post-flop play. perhaps the easiest way of explanation is to describe a few of the hands from a recent session i played online thats had it's highs and lows. i am going to run through three interesting hands to illustrate some important points about post-flop omaha. the first hand concern trying to generate some sort of income from an un-raised pot.


HAND 1 TRAPPING FOR VALUE

while playing $3/$6 six-handed PLO on full tilt, i was dealt K-K-4-2 off suit in the big blind and saw a flop with two limpers who both had position on me. the flop was a pefect match of K-7-3 rainbow.

the challenge in this situation was to try and get my opponents to put some money into the pot. the pot was only $21 and the texture of the flop was not dangerous. it is unlikely that an ace on the turn would give an opponent a bigger set because they would probably have raised pre-flop at this level with aces.

only a 4,5 or 6 have the potential for putting a better hand on the board and it is less likely my opponets are playing with smaller cards. so this is definitely trap-check situation with little danger of giving away the pot with free cards. hopefully i could induce a steal from the button. or better still, maybe an opponent will have two pair.

unforunately both opponents checked. however, a queen then arrived on the turn. this also put two to the flush on board, opening a lot of drawing possitbilities. i didnt't want to give the pot away for free, so i bet out the full pot of $21 hoping i would get an opponent to pay for ( and preferably miss) their draw.

i did in fact pick up one caller and the river was a lucky 7, pairing the board. i am now looking at kings full of sevens, which i am 99% sure is the best hand. when out of position i like too bet around a third of the pot, which here is $25 into $63. this achieves several ends:

1 an opponent with no hand ( but alot of flair) may mistake it as a weak bet and raise in an attempt to steal.

2 an opponent with a weak hand such as a bare 7 will call when they may not call a full-sized pot bet.

3 it sets up or disguises a stopper bet in other circumstances ( should your opponents actully be paying attention to your actions)

there is some equity loss if an opponent is holding another full house like Q-7 fors sevens full of queens and chooses not to raise. however in this situation my opponent had been unlucky enough to turn a set of queens and river queens full. therefore , he raised the pot. after a second or to so discard the possibilty of quad sevens, as surely he would have bet the flop, i re-raised my $350 all-in, and was called.

a bet on the flop would more often then not have only collected $21 in this situation. a flop check and a lucky turn and river turned the pot into a $400 profit.

hand 2

later in the session, having blinded away almost $200 i had just over $600 in front of me, when i called a raise on the button with 5-7-8-9 ( two hearts ). there was $57 in the pot and i liked the flop of 7-10-J ( two clubs): the nuts!

however, the big blindled straight out with a pot-sized bet, only for the original raiser to re-pot with a raise. it was $228 to me and i was open to another re-raise even if i didn't do so myself. i reluctantly chose to fold. there are several reasons for this:

1 one of the other opponents probably also has the stright, so i am risking $600 to win only $300.

2 this type of straight has to communal cards at the high end, meaning there is a huge number of higher stright draws, any 8-9-Q-KING and ace potentially puts a higher straight on the board.

3 there is also two to the flush , so there's a 33% chance that a flush will hit the board.

4 the board may of course also pair up should someone have a set.

as it turned out., folding was a mistake as the turn and river where Railbirds card: 2hRailbirds card: 4h giving me an unlikely backdoor flush that was a scoop. the problem with growing old is that you just lose your imagination!

the big blind, as it transpired, held J-10-Q-K so could have outdrawn me with any 9-10-J or ACE. the original raiser had A-A-Q-10 so needed a king or club. as it happens, i was in about as good as shape as i could have hoped for. however, you can see that i still lose to half the pack on the turn and river. i'm probably about a 25% to survive when i see all their cards. however, i would have won, so i am now steaming.

key point

sometimes in pot-limit omaha it is corect to fold the nuts on the flop when facing a lot of heat in a multi-way pot. if you dont have any re-draws you may well be needing to dodge more then half the deck to stay in front.

hand 3

later in the session i conected with another good flop, after raising on the button with A-Q-10-8 ( no suit), i was called by just the big blind. the flop was a perfect match of 8-9-J but again with two spades offering a flush draw. surprisingly my opponent led out, betting pot of $39. now, most people's natural instinct is to raise with the nut stright here to make an opponent pay for their draws should they have trips or a flush draw. however i was in position, so i choose to flat-call for several reasons.

1 i could be in a difficult situation where my opponent has both the straight and the flush draw, and may be best to see what happens on the turn.

2 my opponent may have been bluffing, or betting ( blocker) pocket tens. a brick on the turn may well induce another bluff.

3 if my opponent is betting the same nut straight as me, i can now represent the flush draw or trips. should the turn or river produce a spade or a paired board, i will now bet the pot as though i have hit my draw.

4 the most important reason is just in case my opponent is betting the lower 7-10 straight. in this scenario i do not want to lose my opponent with a raise thats tells him i may have the higher straight. if the turn and river are both unhelpful bricks, my opponent will often bet both streets and lose the maximum amount possible.


key point


as it happens in this case, the turn was a low spade that produced a check from the big blind. i put out a "feeler" half-pot bet of $60 and he instantly folded. i guess we will never know what he had.

win some, lose some

unfortunately, i managed to play an aces hand pretty badly out of position shortly afterwards, quickly followed by another losing hand where i missed a flush draw. flush draws seems so much harder to play in PLO then they do in no-limit hold'em. the main reason is that when you a flush in hold'em, your opponent's hand is usually a lot weaker, so they are more likely to fold to a aggressive re-raise. secondly, an ace-high flush draw can often win by hitting an ace.

in this scenario the flop was 5-7-10 with two heats. if i was holding A-2 of hearts in no-limit hold'em and all the money went in on the flop, i could usually expect to have three aces and nine hearts as solid outs. this is a total of 12 cards, giving me roughly 48% chance of winning the pot. considering that there would have been some pre-flop money in the pot and that there is undoubly some fold equity involved, it is correct and proper to play this hand very aggressively.

however, in this scenario i re-raised aggressively with my flush draw trying to make my opponent fold, only to find him with a set of sevens. this is a typical scenario for pot-limit omaha - big post-flop clashes often involve a big made hand against a big draw. i was priced in for his re-raise and ended up with $450 in the middle in bad shape. my hand was Railbirds card: AhRailbirds card: 2hRailbirds card: KsRailbirds card: Kc i had only 2 kings and 6 non-pairing hearts available, was a massive underdog and deservedly lost.

i had now lost most of my profit and was a meagre $88 up. i logged off, made a cup of tea and watched my beloved man utd have the living daylights kicked out of them by liverpool.



13 comments


Login to add comment...

JKravat Nov 14, 2008 9:53 pm
Another GREAT blog, cj, thanks a lot.
slavocash Nov 14, 2008 10:13 pm
"as it turned out., folding was a mistake as the turn and river where Railbirds card: 2hRailbirds card: 4h giving me an unlikely backdoor flush that was a scoop. the problem with growing old is that you just lose your imagination! " dont be results oriented
cj28000 Nov 14, 2008 10:14 pm
i know it was a joke
Krafty3333 Nov 15, 2008 12:13 am
moral of the story: manutd sucks
p0ker_j0ker Nov 15, 2008 2:45 am
Another Great blog CJ. Stop it LOL now I have to think of something to write about again =)

Another point I would like to add about your statement that flush draws being harder to play is with the 4 cards dealt instead of 2 in holdem Its is far more likely that instead of 9 outs you might think you have to the flush, In reality you are more likely only drawing to 6 or 7 outs. That and Im never happy to get there with jack high flush and see an opponent raise me back.
p0ker_j0ker Nov 15, 2008 3:47 am
Railbird image uploaded: Nov 12, 2008 4:53 pm
Duck394 Nov 15, 2008 4:29 am
Great blog. Omaha is a game I am learning, and I really need these type of lessons.
A55A55IN Nov 15, 2008 8:38 pm

canadagrind Nov 15, 2008 8:45 pm
i would call omaha a turn and river game for sure
narizblanco Nov 15, 2008 9:00 pm
slow play in PLO is an invitation to disaster. It rarely works out
jagal Nov 16, 2008 7:46 pm
Another great and very useful blog CJ!... as always!!!

I really like Pot Limit Omaha, but I wouldn't call it a flop game... Ok, I don't have your experience, so this is just my humble opinion on this subject

Having the nuts on the flop doesn't translate very often by having the nuts after the turn or/and after the river.

Pot limit Omaha is a game of draws and maybe more of re-draws. That's why having a set on the flop (especially a low one) isn't enough to make players fold after the flop. And those not used to play a lot of Pot Limit Omaha will not understand why as many players are "fishing" on the turn or the river.

I don't really think AAxy is a good starting hand except if xy allows you some sort of great combinations to win the hand with something else than AAA or AA (i.e. some straight or flush possibilities). In my experience you win this starting hand (AAxy) more often on the strength of xy.

Always looking for your blogs CJ!!! Great work!

Good luck on and off the felts my friend!!!
BigButt Nov 16, 2008 7:49 pm
Why does this read like a book or an article outside of railbirds?
cj28000 Nov 16, 2008 9:16 pm
it looks like a article because i take on average a few hours of planing what i am going to blog about and how i am going to explain the situations. and make a draft copy so it dont look a mess when i do publish.

Login on Railbirds


© Copyright 2009