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A display of discipline........?

Nov 4, 2008 12:27 am Report Abuse

Everyone has probably noticed my blog signature:

(Never interrupt the enemy when he is making a mistake - Napolean Bonaparte )

Many think this an axiom but it is an actual quote by the French General /Politician who is often thought of as one of the greatest Generals of all time.

Why I use it is because, in my view, poker has many similarities to war. There are tactics, strategy, attacks, withdrawals just to name a few elements of battle. How this applies to this blog is that last night I played a game and a player either lacked the discipline or felt the need to impress the table with his assessment of each player and the play just made. Needless to say he was entirely wrong on each "assessment" and went out chasing an inside str8.

These people are not rare - all of you are familiar with these players - it seems that the rule is one per table - at least you're guaranteed to run in to a few of them in every game.

I pay close attention to the game and occasionally discern an exploitable weakness in a player. Those of you who know me probably will agree I'm one argumentative SOB I like to think that this happens only when there is a legitimate reason to argue rather than the sake of argument alone. Especially during a game I am mindful to avoid pointless (meaning tactically useless) babbling - to do otherwise displays some lack of discipline. At least I can never find a reason to let another beat me at using something I alone may have observed to help me win.

How this applies to the subject of this blog is that I'm totally puzzled why players cannot control themselves during a game. Would it not be a better to:

  • Use what you have observed to win the game. Isn't it senseless to tell the table your take on the observation? Doesn't that give opponents valuable insight as to what you might do if the situation presents itself again?
  • Not alert the other players to what your perhaps superior observation skills alone might have detected. It's kind of like a batter who is expert at smacking fastballs out of the park telling a pitcher who loves his weak fastball "don't throw that weak fastball - I'll smack it out of the park". Wouldn't this batter hope he tried it?
  • Allow the player to continue the mistake so he cannot correct the weakness? Do you really want your opponent to know what you have seen so that he can quit doing it?
I understand attempting to tilt others for tactical advantage - I guess it occasionally works with weak-minded players. In my view it is more often an expression of the lack of discipline of the offending player.

This is my rationale. I'll exclude the totally recreational, minimally skilled player. The premise of my argument is that every player who uses the mechanical tools of playing poker well almost never loses because of forgetting to "carry the two" when figuring odds. In other words the math of this game do not require a PHD in physics. Often losses and wins for that matter, come from conclusions drawn and actions taken that differ from what the mechanics tell you. Advanced players drawn advanced conclusions and take advanced actions from information basic players cannot even see.

At most levels of play, players who don't have the discipline to know when to be quiet rarely are disciplined enough to take their game to an advanced level. The comical thing is that most of these "virtual Phil Ivey's" observations and "expert" commentary is inaccurate anyway and perhaps practicing the discipline of refraining from this type of commentary will leave some brainpower for the game....

Merlin333


19 comments


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Lyndog Nov 4, 2008 12:34 am

here..here....lots of truths

CAustin919 Nov 4, 2008 12:35 am

Agreed. Why when you are playing online you would give your opponents ANY information is beyond me. The internet and poker room are hiding your own tells from the other players. On the other hand if you are able to pick something up on another player, DON'T let everyone else know.

Simple pointers that are often overlooked. Nice Blog.

Tonopah63 Nov 4, 2008 12:48 am

Jon

Right on the mark with this blog.

Take care and good luck.

SHERRY524 Nov 4, 2008 12:51 am
Well I have to agree with most of what you said. When they are spouting useful truths I want to smack them. When they are spouting inaccurate information I find it entertaining
Burntaces Nov 4, 2008 1:04 am

Not alert the other players to what your perhaps superior observation skills alone might have detected. It's kind of like a batter who is expert at smacking fastballs out of the park telling a pitcher who loves his weak fastball "don't throw that weak fastball - I'll smack it out of the park". Wouldn't this batter hope he tried it?

this is a quote from you...

A little hypocritical if you ask me...

Not that i care, but i just thought it was funny.

Burntaces Nov 4, 2008 1:05 am

didnt you just do the opposite of what that statement says?

Markie141 Nov 4, 2008 1:08 am

I call that the "Everyone thinks they're Hellmuth syndrome" lol,

I also find it pretty amusing when it's clear they have no

idea what they're talking aobut lmao , I just sit back and

watch them tilt themselves right on out of the game lol ,

but you and Napolean are right ,

Let your enemy make all the mistakes they want too heh heh

A55A55IN Nov 4, 2008 1:56 am
Long time no blog J!!!


CyberSleuth7 Nov 4, 2008 2:15 am
Agreed. I would refer to them as virtual Phil Hellmuths though.
philivory Nov 4, 2008 2:41 am

I have 2 agree with alot in your blog.

Me ..i usually like to talk at the tables ...we play online and its entertainment . I do recognize myself , straining over peoples play at the tables and me having to point there play out to them . I say this to other players because i just dont like being sucked out on , which is the case alot of times . If you instigate them they will more than likeley call and try and suck out on you .

jsc88310 Nov 4, 2008 2:45 am

Jon, where the hell have you been???? Or have I just missed seeing your blogs? Either way, it's nice to see you again.

Jeff

DaveHTN Nov 4, 2008 2:50 am
Very nice. I will make use of this should we meet on the felt, darn I just revealed my secret plan. Never mind.
Duck394 Nov 4, 2008 2:59 am
Totally agree. I like it when two other players get into an argument over a hand as it takes both of them (usually) out of the next hand (at least mentally out), and it can be entertaining as sherry524 mentioned. Most arguments I have seen are started by a player who just made a stupid bet or call and lost, thus leading to a couple minutes of steaming and trying to recoup their losses.

This is one of the reasons I don't chat much while playing (except to say nh).
akaCLINT Nov 4, 2008 3:02 pm
well written and informative blog..., and ohhhhh soooo true...
20_lb_stack Nov 4, 2008 4:44 pm
I think for a lot of the "chatbox experts" aren't even in the game to play poker. I think the anonymity of the internet table lets them stroke the old ego by trying to show how much better they are than the other players. As you say they often lack even the basic skill needed to play the game "for profit".
markz42488 Nov 4, 2008 6:55 pm
you seem like a very good smart poker player.... in our first match up i had a great hand and got the advantage but as u play me i think you will learn my ways and we will have many good battels good luck hope to see u again
dvd-GT Nov 4, 2008 7:13 pm

Good to see a poker blog, thank-you.

Now on the subject of giving information how do i stop showing my bluffs, i have tried pinging an elastic band on my wrist but it is just too much fun to quit, please help.

DeltaQ Nov 4, 2008 7:40 pm
Nice thanks
Merlin333 Nov 4, 2008 8:09 pm
Thanks for the comments people. I've been "a way" been very busy creating my own poker site (just finished) , working too much and playing bad poker in between. No my time is open and I'm baaaaaaakkkkk.

dvd-GT
My nature is to argue back at loudmouths. I haven't conquered it yet. The start is realizing it's something that does not help your game - then modify the behavior on incident a a time. I hate losing worst than I like an idiosyncrasy - so I'm getting better. (sounds like a 12 step program -lol)

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