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short stack against full buy-in

Sep 26, 2008 5:46 pm Report Abuse

the last few days we have all seen top cats blog on using a full buy-in for ring games. and the discussion we had in the comments.

if you want to read the comments they are start on page 2 and continue onto page 3 of tc's blog

this is the link to topcats blog

http://www.railbirds.com/blog/201540/50-to-500-you-can-do-it-too.html

this is the link to my blog the summery is the part you want to read.

http://www.railbirds.com/blog/201402/short-stacking-scenario-3-analysis.html

this is not trying to discredit topcat but i was asked to show that a smart short stacker can make money over the long term, these stats are taken from the railbirds ring game table on full tilt.

he challenged me to prove him wrong that if you buy-in for less then the full amount that you are going to lose money.

these stats are taken off a weeks play from either strategy

this is topcats ring game stats using a full buy-in.

Railbird image uploaded: Sep 26, 2008 2:42 pm

as you can see he has made a lose of over $27 in 275 hands played

he also made a lose in 5 of the 7 days played

this is the stats for the short stack player over a longer hand time frame.

Railbird image uploaded: Sep 26, 2008 2:42 pm

as you can see the short stacker has a longer hand history but shows a profit of over $25 for 1225 hands

if we use the same hand rate as top cat you will see that has made a profit of roughly $2 over the same amount of hands played

he also made a profit everyday he played.

this proves if you use the short stack strategy correctly you can make a profit.



10 comments


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allndave Sep 26, 2008 6:01 pm

no matter what the buy in very few can play loose bomb/ maniac style and show a profit in ring games.

jackal if you insist on using PHIL HEMUTH'S animal likness, that is useless without a 9x9 chart showing LAG or TAG

Azhiaziam Sep 26, 2008 6:03 pm
I agree with you you do not need the full buy in you just need to know how to play and play correctly. However I agree with the idea of getting in with a full br cus I like to play lots of hands in ring games losing a lot but hitting a big hand with lots of chips also earns a lil faster than only having a half buy in ie the rb table if you come in with 2 bucks and hit huge you only double up to 4 bucks if you come in with ten and hit nothing but lose 10 blinds for a buck and hit only 1 hand for half your buyin you are up 4 bucks.
The reasoning behind topcats idea of coming in with a full buyin is disagreeable by some I think but hey each his own.

Az Hi Az I Am
JUMPY Sep 26, 2008 9:10 pm
I know better than to argue with CJ , he has better poker wisdom than I . But I do think it depends on the players involved in the stat study. I will say if I am catching good , I will sit at 4 or 5 tables short and play super aggressive , have really beefed up my BR that way a few times.

Nice graphs BTW .
topcat1954 Sep 26, 2008 9:16 pm

You are God, and I bow to you !..... I sure am glad you are not trying to discredit me !

....Topcat .....

cj28000 Sep 26, 2008 9:21 pm
top cat l

i did what you asked me, too prove that using a short stack can be a good strategy if it is played the correct way
NiceJones Sep 26, 2008 10:03 pm
Good one CJ ..

But againg i'll say here if u use a Full load, strategy correctly, and play that well, u gonna get payed off u'r hands at MAX.. not at 60 / 70 %, but offcuz a shortstack will after 1-2 hands well played get "full" loaded.


just imo..

JUMPY Sep 26, 2008 10:25 pm
NiceJones makes a point i meant to . I will sit out when the short stack is second or third biggest stack .. that is if I actually win in that session
CyberSleuth7 Sep 26, 2008 11:23 pm

This is a level right?

This is a result oriented post. How can you contest that this proves anything? Why not just post 1 hand someone with a full buyin lost? The sampling is insignificant. This looks more like a personal attack.

Lou-dog Sep 26, 2008 11:44 pm
i never buy in for the full amount in a online cg.....i buy in for a comfortable stak at the blind level and i play rocky until i know what is going on at the table. gl and play on all.
cj28000 Sep 27, 2008 12:16 am
cyber where do you get the personnel attack from i dont see it anywhere

the sampling is small for the max buy-in but this is a quick way to show that playing a short stack well means you wont lose every session.

please dont tell me i must have sucked out everyhand to get the results

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