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Advice/Opinion Please

Jul 23, 2008 7:03 pm Report Abuse

Here I am again to start some arguments and get some outside opinion on how to play. Lets say you bought in for 10.00 and there are around 200 people top 18 get paid and first place is close to 2000.00, I know not the structure but just for argument sake.

Early in a tournament do you - - - -
1. Call multiple all ins with AA/KK other strong hands in late position?

Middle of a tournament (around 85-115 people left)

2. Call multiple all ins with AA/KK other strong hands in late position?

Late in a tournament (25-30 people left)

3. Call multiple all ins with AA/KK other strong hands in late position?

and just for another little twist how much does your chip stack effect YOUR calls?


8 comments


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1stKngBlckSldg Jul 23, 2008 7:19 pm

1. yes with AA or KK. QQ, JJ, and !)!) is a toss-up (are ya feeling lucky?)

2.yes with AA,KK. QQ, JJ,or 1010 see addendum to 1. (by now you should know something about some of your opponents)

3. yes with AA, Possibly with KK or QQ (you should know the others ( or most of them) style of play by now! ! !)

your chip stck should an influence on your decisions. but not control thsat decision. so to speak.

Good luck on the tables! Railbirds card: Kh

ButtonDog Jul 23, 2008 7:19 pm
I would say no to all three, regardless of the size of my stack. The chances are pretty good in all three cases that I would be drawing dead.
PapaPower Jul 23, 2008 7:27 pm

In all 3 cases:

NEVER call multiple all-ins with AA or KK. You only have 2 outs to improve your hand. Chances are at least 1 of the all ins is gonna have one of those outs.

That's why drawing hands like 10-J or 6-7 fare so well in multiple all-ins. More outs = more chance to improve and win.

minneslim Jul 23, 2008 7:27 pm
I'd really want to call, knowing that at the moment I'm probably best, but...hopefully the moreintelligent part of me would take over and make me realize that, early on, while I want to collect chips, the more hands I'm up against, the more likely I am to lose; midway through, I want to be collecting, but I still want to be able to make a push for the money against just one or 2 with hands like that, and late in the tourney, I want to protect my stack and let other people take each other out. I don't want to lose the hand, double/triple/quadruple up a small stack who may now be able to play with me, stack-wise...it's a crappy proposition to fold hands like that but it comes down to smart play over the course of an entire tournament...what is the best play to get me ITM and winning it all, as opposed to playing high-risk situations with good pairs that can be down to 2-7 post flop?
IamMrM Jul 23, 2008 7:53 pm

early in the game, no.

Middle of the tourney, no, better to live and be able to fight another day.

Late in the tourney depends on how much chips the other people have, how they have been playing, and if you think you have an overcard on them. I personally prolly wouldn't do it though.

how many chips you have should ALWAYS influence how much to bet in relation to pot size.

BigJoeJones Jul 23, 2008 8:01 pm
I would never fold AA in a tournament ever. You are favored to win the hand even against 4 or more opponents. Some of their outs are nut outs for you on straights and flushes as well. If you win an all-in against three opponents with AA you will quadruple your stack, giving you the best chance to go deep into the tournament. If you bust you got your money in with the best hand and gave your chance to win. I know tournament poker is about survival, but AA unless against 5 or more opponents, it's never a coinflip. You have an a significant lead even against 3 opponents. Kings are a different story but still similar. Most of the time with three or four all ins 2 or more of them will be aces. So they are each drawing to two outs as well, except you have a made hand. These are big hands and hands you want to get your money in with regardless of chip stack sizes or position.
IamMrM Jul 25, 2008 12:31 am

A A (as hole cards) has only a 31% chance of winning.

Source:http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/324462/complete_list_of_hole_card_odds.html?page=2&cat=61

Ace Ace 31%
King King 26.02%
Queen Queen 22.03%
Ace King (suited) (Big Slick) 20.19%
Jack Jack 19.09%
Ace Queen (suited) 18.66%
King Queen (suited) 18.08%
Ace Jack (suited) 17.47%
King Jack (suited) 17.05%
Ten Ten 16.83%
Ace King (Big Slick) 16.67%
Ace Ten (suited) 16.63%
Queen Jack (suited) 16.58%
King Ten (suited) 16.14%
Queen Ten (suited) 15.84%
Jack Ten (suited) 15.78%
99 15.29%
Ace Queen 14.87%
Ace 9(suited) 14.6%
King Queen 14.43%
88 14.16%
King 9(suited) 14.15%
Ten 9(suited) 14.07%
Ace 8(suited) 13.89%
Queen 9(suited) 13.82%
Jack 9(suited) 13.80%
Ace Jack 13.45%
Ace 5(suited) 13.43%
77 13.36%
Ace 7(suited) 13.35%
King Jack 13.18%
Ace 4(suited) 13.17%
Ace 3(suited) 13.07%
Ace 6(suited) 12.97%
Queen Jack 12.89%
66 12.77%
King 8(suited) 12.77%
Ten 8(suited) 12.73%
Ace 2(suited) 12.69%
98(suited) 12.63%
Jack 8(suited) 12.47%
Ace Ten 12.43%
Queen 8(suited) 12.42%
King 7(suited) 12.23%
King Ten 12.23%
55 ("Speed Limit" 12.15%
Jack Ten 12.13%
87(suited) 12.02%
Queen Ten 11.99%
44 11.94%
33 11.93%
22 11.86%
King 6(suited) 11.84%
97(suited) 11.74%
King 5(suited) 11.57%
76(suited) 11.47%
Ten 7(suited) 11.47%
King 4(suited) 11.4%
King 2(suited) 11.27%
King 3(suited) 11.26%
Queen 7(suited) 11.20%
86(suited) 11.16%
65(suited) 11.13%
Jack 7(suited) 11.12%
54(suited) 10.90%
Queen 6(suited) 10.85%
75(suited) 10.69%
96(suited) 10.65%
Queen 5(suited) 10.55%
64(suited) 10.44%
Queen 4(suited) 10.43%
Queen 3(suited) 10.42%
Ten 9 10.38%
Ten 6(suited) 10.31%
Queen 2(suited) 10.28%
Ace 9 10.20%
53(suited) 10.18%
85(suited) 10.12%
Jack 6(suited) 10.10%
Jack 9 9.99%
King 9 9.93%
Jack 5(suited) 9.86%
Queen 9 9.81%
43(suited) 9.81%
74(suited) 9.74%
Jack 4(suited) 9.73%
Jack 3(suited) 9.57%
95(suited) 9.56%
Jack 2(suited) 9.50%
63(suited) 9.49%
Ace 8 9.42%
52(suited) 9.25%
Ten 5(suited) 9.23%
84(suited) 9.14%
Ten 4(suited) 9.11%
Ten 3(suited) 9.06%
42(suited) 9.02%
Ten 2(suited) 8.97%
98 8.97%
Ten 8 8.93%
Ace 5 8.92%
Ace 7 8.83%
73(suited) 8.75%
Ace 4 8.72%
32(suited) 8.7%
94(suited) 8.7%
93(suited) 8.53%
Jack 8 8.50%
Ace 3 8.50%
62(suited) 8.48%
92(suited) 8.46%
King 8 8.45%
Ace 6 8.39%
87 8.36%
Queen 8 8.28%
83(suited) 8.23%
Ace 2 8.18%
82(suited) 8.11%
97 7.96%
72(suited) 7.91%
76 7.88%
King 7 7.86%
65 7.57%
Ten 7 7.53%
King 6 7.46%
86 7.4%
54 7.36%
King 5 7.13%
Jack 7 7.10%
75 7.01%
Queen 7 6.97%
King 4 6.95%
King 3 6.87%
96 6.77%
King 2 6.76%
64 6.75%
Queen 6 6.58%
53 6.57%
85 6.3%
Ten 6 6.28%
Queen 5 6.26%
43 6.17%
Queen 4 6.13%
Queen 3 6.05%
74 5.96%
Queen 2 5.95%
Jack 6 5.94%
63 5.73%
Jack 5 5.63%
95 5.6%
52 5.56%
Jack 4 5.5%
42 5.4%
Jack 2 5.33%
84 5.25%
Ten 5 5.22%
Ten 4 5.04%
32 5.02%
Ten 3 4.95%
73 4.94%
Ten 2 4.88%
62 4.72%
94 4.65%
93 4.51%
92 4.47%
83 4.33%
82 4.2%
72 4.04%

Never overvalue aces.

Codimis Jul 25, 2008 12:52 am

papa nailed it


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