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In Defense of Math

Dec 31, 2007 3:42 am Report Abuse

There is a hypothetical poker match up that a number of poker authors have weighed in on, some of whom I normally I have a great deal of respect for. Much to my surprise, in every instance I have read about this, the verdict has been the same, and for the same wrong reason.

Before I explain what this hypothetical match up is, and why it seems everyone is wrong about it, I would like to point out that I am not weighing in on the actual debate, just commenting on the arguments used to reach the conclusion. (to be honest I am not sure the debate itself has any value, execept for someone trying to defend his own lack of skills)

The match up is usually stated something like this; imagine you have two players, one of whom is a powerhouse at the physcological side of the game but has no knowledge of the math involved, and the other who is a brilliant poker mathematician, but who doesn't have a firm grasp on physcological aspects of the game. The two players play each other, either heads up or just by sitting at the same full table. The question is, of the two who wins? Every author I've seen write about this declares that math loses to phsycology ever time.

The problem I see with this argument is that invariably authors are comparing skill sets of different levels. They tend to credit the phsycological player with being able to make consistant good reads of his opponents. They tend to give the math player nothing more than a knowledge of pot odds. One skill can be learned in a matter of a few days, the other takes years. Yet there are math skills relevent to poker that are as hard to learn as getting good reads. Learning to apply game theory, especially on the fly, is very difficult, but also very useful.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that I don't think it makes any sense to devalue math skills; which is what it seems anyone who make this arguement is trying to do. Having math skills can only be a credit to your game. Yes, math sometimes gets a bad rap because simple poker math is like a religion to some ABC players. But there are great mathematicians amoung the "name" players in the world, and they certainly are not ABC players.



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Markie141 Dec 31, 2007 4:25 am
I'm gonna have to agree with you , the math of poker is a beautiful thing to me , too many players have a good instinct aggression wise but are way off on the math of it all , I assume in their example they are playing holdem where aggression is a little more useful than other types of poker but knowing what hands to play and when cannot be under rated either ,I would never call Chris Ferguson or David Sklansky ABC players , they both have a very mathematical style I like a lot and I like watching them play , they rarely make a mistake unlike people who seem to play from emotion alone who make a lot of mistakes for that reason , I also like a lot of players who do seem to play more of an aggressive style of poker but it is nice to see real mathematical poker played too , gl !
CTxPoet Jan 1, 2008 10:00 pm

I to must agree however to be a great poker player one must learn to play out side the numbers sometimes. Every hand can be a winner or loser but it always helps to know the odds and be able to spot tells. I like live games because I am very perceptive and not just at poker, but I bet the odds when the math is right. I would think that like any other game it would be a toss up depending on who drew the best cards. However knowing the odds will certainly give some edge I think.

Great post thanks for sharing

Chas


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