A little while ago I read an article about online poker is not real because they do not burn cards instead just continue to shuffle the cards as you bet and play. The reason they say its not real is the the fact a card on the bottom of the deck in live poker would never have the chance of coming out , but on online poker every card is available to come out changing the whole integrity of the game. Also the fact that is why there is so many bad beats on online poker because people always have a chance to hit there flush draw, gut shot, or ant other miracle card because the cards are always shuffling, when I read this article I contacted a well known poker site to see of this was tru here is there response:
Thank you for contacting ***********Poker Support, and we certainly
appreciate your concern with how our random number generator (RNG)
operates.
As an avid poker player, I certainly understand your frustrations with bad beats and general negative variance. I have myself been through prolonged streaks of both good and bad luck. Please be assured that our shuffle is random.
why are they talking about bad beats here when it was not my question????????????
The following is a post
on
RGP, one of the largest online forums on the Internet. Please read
Perry
Friedman's explanation of our RNG; it is very revealing about how
online
shufflers work, and ensure that hackers cannot infiltrate our site
Unfortunately in the short-run, variance is such a large factor in
poker, and many players will receive more than their expected average
of
premium hands in terms of card distribution and consequently at times,
less than their expected average of premium hands. The same can be said
in terms of hitting flops and completing draws or having hands hold up.
It is only when dealing with very large numbers that a player's average
statistics will approach its expected average. This is where the
expression, "professionals play by the month, not by the day" is
derived.
I believe that the voice of the general
poker community will be more persuasive in dissuading you of your belief that online poker is rigged.
( right here why are they talking to me like this??) basically saying no one will believe me(unreal)
so long story short it is true
© Copyright 2008
116 comments
Below is my resonse to a blog at:: http://www.railbirds.com/blog/115744
I'd like to hear your thoughts?
Wow,
I'm no mathmetician. I don't understand how shuffling unknown cards shuffled from one unknown sequence to another unknown sequence changes any of the probabilities.
In my non-statiscal mind it seems like that burning or not burning some cards may have an effect - just seems logical.
I'm going to pass this question to some RB's who are more mathmatically than I. To see if they want to weigh in ...
PookieGirl2, smileyHere, A55A55IN and theWall
What is both puzzling and telling is that whenever you contact a site on this issue whether you actually say or imply there is cheating they always infer that is what you mean.
In my mind there is a leap between "frustration with bad beats" which all poker players have and a general confusion with online sites' mechanism of RNG and "virtual dealers" which, it seems, everyone but Masters Candidates in statistics have confusion with???
Merlin333
The shuffling and the burn cards have no effect
the burn cards are for live play only to prevent someone seeing a mark on the next cummunity card to come...
The "extra" shuffling they do online, make certain that no one can know in advanced what card will come next through any algorythm or "hack" into the system
neither has any real effect on game play except what I stated above... neither change the math in any way... and neither make "bad beats" any more or less likely...
:-D
i was gonna type in the origins myself but found this on wikipedia:
In card games, a burn card is a playing card dealt from the top of a deck, and discarded ("burned"
, unused by the players. Burn cards are almost always placed face down next to the discard pile without being revealed to the players.
Burning is most often performed in casinos to deter a form of cheating known as card marking. In poker, for example, the top card of the deck stub is burned at the beginning of each betting round, so that players who might have been able to read markings on that card during the previous round are less able to take advantage of that information. Knowledge of a burn card might be marginally useful, such as knowing there is one less Ace in the deck, but far less so than having it in play. [1]
Burning also provides extra cards for use when an irregularity of play occurs. Sometimes a mis-dealt card (such as one of the down cards in poker that has flashed during the deal) will be used as the burn card — in those cases, the card should be immediately placed face up on the deck after the deal is complete.
In Texas hold'em, a card is burned before the flop, before the turn, and before the river.
suppose they had a lottery... and they picked the umbers BEFORE you could buy tickets... but NO ONE knew what the numbers were... would it affect your play if you decided to play?
No
would you be concerned that SOMEONE might already know the numbers???
YES
In live play... once the dealing starts... the cards ARE ALREADY DETERMINED.. ALL OF THEM... the hole cards, the flop, the turn and the river (in TEXAS HOLDEM)... just noone knows what they are, because noone is alowed to look through the deck to see...
online, however, it is possible that someone could "look" through the deck... so they make sure that it don't happen by constantly shuffling... you should be happy they do it that way, as it prevents cheating
Thats what I said !
Either way you cut it....Live deck or online....if the deck is limited to 52 cards and cards that have been dealt are removed from the remaining deck YOU HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHAT THE NEXT CARD IS!
Thats the important thing.
In live play you have errors, The dealer can flip card - that never happens online. As smiley said the only reason to have burn cards is to hide the next card to be played in case the deck is marked....A vestige of the wild west.
You see just as many bad beats in live poker as you do in online. Play 100 hands online and tell me how many bad beats happen. Now go to a casino and play for 4 hours and play 100 hands and tell me how many bad beats you get. It will be the same, its the fact that you play so many more hands online and your probally playing very low stakes which players will stay in longer than they should because they don't have as much invested in the hands
Good luck on the felt
UNTIL A CARD IS FACE UP ON THE TABLE IT IS UNKNOWN
Do you know what the burn card is in live play?...NO
So it is an unknown card.
Thus the odds do not change whether the card is show as a burn card on a table or remains in the deck
AS LONG AS THE CARD IS NOT SHOWN IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE IT IS...ON THE TABLE OR IN THE DECK.
where in the email they say it isnt true that explains it self